MCSD/MCDBA or Masters?

[oc2iowa]

My current situation is that I'm in a job I hate (education), but it's reasonably well paid. I desperately want to leave but I know my skills are out of date and it's years since I had a "real" job in industry. My employee is prepared to fund a qual for me and I can't decide between a MCSD or doing my masters. Perhaps the fact that I work in eduction is actually detering me from the masters because I've seen people take years to complete and become "professional students" in the process. Then again, there is the view that MCSDs and the like are just paper-based quals and disregarded by many.

So - which will help me the most make the move into industry? I realise a masters is going to take longer but I don't mind waiting if I will have something to show at the end of it. Also, I'll have the masters forever whereas the MSCD has a limited life.

All advice gratefully received

Lou

 

[CajunCenturion]

See thread: thread654-636039


Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[needcoffee]

Lou,

The unanswered questions are a Masters in what area and what path do yee seek in IT. If you are going for a MBA, MA MIS, MA Comp Sci/Engineering, them persue the Masters. The MCSD may cost less in money and time in the short term but will only be good for 3 yrs. before you must do it all over again. The Masters will last you entire life and be more valuable to an employer on your resume and give you a better track towards a management position. Also, an interviewee with a Master's and no experience will usually win out over another with just a certification and little experience. One more thought, unless you are taking courses the MCSD could take you the same amount of time as the Masters if you are working fulltime.

On the other hand you could get lucky, have no college degree and only one or two certs, and wind up managing tech support teams and sys/network admins. Doesn't happen very often though.

needcoffee

 

[willir]

Lou

Although some say Master's degrees are "a dime a dozen", I feel you learn more "transferable skills" -- skills that you carry throughout your professional life. Whereas a specialized program such as MCSD, or other like program are limited to a narrow window of opportunity, and may reach the end of their usefulness in two to five years.

Having said that, several of my friends have Masters degrees and earn the bare minimum, and some of my other friends with MCSE or equivalent went on to become very successful. of course, I also know stories that went the other way around - rich people with Masters and poor people with a MCxx diploma.

This goes back to NeedCoffee's comment about what type of Master's program are you looking at. And where? Some Master's program, prehaps such as an MBA, will be preceived as more valuable than others, perhaps such as an MA.

The "where" becomes improtant. I suspect a degree from a prestiguous university will carry more weight than one from other universities. They tend to cost more too.

Two more things...

"Luck of the draw".

I have seen a high school drop out move on to become a VP in a Fortune 500 company. Once this guy realized he was on the wrong path, he turned himself around, invested in his education (high end Univerisities, BA and MBA), got lucky on the interview, made some smart choices, worked like a dog and found himself at the top.

Another, equally smart and gifted friend worked hard all his life, but seemed to make all the wrong choices. (Such as being in the wrong industry during a recession.) In spite of having several degrees, fiscally, he is a wreck.

And a third friend did the bare minimum in schooling, and is not what I would consider brillant. But the guy was hired at the bottom end of IT department at a university, made sure he got his job done, never ticked anybody off, never got cut or laid off, and ended up being in charge of the entire IT department at a large university.

Luck, sprinkled with hard work, a little bit of smarts, has a lot to do with where you may end up.


Second point you have already answered - Happiness. It really helps to enjoy what you are doing. As you get older, your sense of happiness will affect your well being and outlook on life.

I think you have made the right choice - the choice to move on to become a better person.

Good luck
Richard

 

[SPguru]

How can a Master's be a "dime a dozen?" when only 25% who receive a Bachelor's degree go on to get a Master's? And only 10% who receive a Master's go on to get a PhD.

 

[willir]

SPguru

Twenty-five percent of those completing their Bachelor's degree is still a lot of people. I found this out when I received my MSc, and started job hunting. I enjoyed getting my MSc and I am proud of it, but the competition is still fierce.

Your PhD number is interesting. I guess 10% of 25% works out to be 2.5% which a lot smaller. A PhD, if employed in his or her field, will make the bigger bucks, but those I have known comment that their job market area is very specialized, and can be limiting.

 

[CajunCenturion]

How can a Master's be a "dime a dozen?"

- Because places like the UofP are selling them to the highest bidder!

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SPguru]

Good point Cajun... LOL!

I would also like to point out that even though 25% getting a Bachelor's attain a Master's, which may sound high, please think of the fact that only about 35% who go to college ever graduate with a Bachelor's (last figures I knew).

 

[willir]

CajunCenturion

I got the expression "dime a dozen" from a person working on her post doctorate when her and I were discussing the merits of post grduate work. In the university environment, there are tons of students working on their Master's degree. Twenty-five percent of under-graduates going on to complete their Masters is a pretty big number.

And please don't misunderstand me. I still value the merits of a Masters program. Just that there are a lot of people who have successful achieved this degree.

Moving on to your point -- selling degrees to the highest bidder. Darn hard issue to ignore -- profit vs academic achievement. A student who successfully completes a valid degree program will come out with more than just an education; they will also acquire many transferable skills that they can use in a multitude of areas. Those who cheat, will not have improved themselves.

It will be up to the HR managers and such to filter out the applicants.

Which brings me to another point for oc2iowa
...

You may want to consider asking an HR manager their perspective. Look at company who you would like to work for (this will be harder if you are aiming at a Fortune 500). Try and talk to the manager, not at looking for a job, but on getting advice -- what skills and degrees do they look for. Although they too can not predict the future, I think this type of advice would be valuable.

 

[FSM]

No Brainer.....MASTERS all the way!

FSM

 

[oc2iowa]

thanks to everyone who's replied to the original post.

I guess there are a few points I need to clarify.

FSM comments of &quot;No Brainer ... MASTERS all the way!&quot; doesn't surprise me as they work in IS/IT management. I believe that many people use a masters as a way to get into management - and this is the issue for me. I'm in management at the moment and I HATE it. I'm sick of appraisals and budgets and staff issues and <brain switched off due as boredom level breached>. Many (many) years ago I was a C/OS programmer and I loved it... I got promoted/moved jobs (seemed like a good idea at the time) and over time my job morphed into managing people/projects. The past few months have involved some hard thinking and I'v realised that I bought into the &quot;management = success&quot; mantra and it was a mistake for me. I'm not knocking those who follow that route - it's right for some people but I don't want to manage ANY people/projects any more.

I'm thinking of returning to prog/sysAn but
1) my skills are rusty
2) no experience of up-to-date technology.

Based on the above I thought a MCSD focusing on C# might open some doors. I thought a masters would have less techie and more management content.

As to the comments about degress... ah such innocence. If you ever get the opportunity - try sitting in on an exam boards some time - a revelation! Universities don't issue degress to prove knowledge - they issue degrees so that they can claim funding.

 

[LesleyW]

&quot;Masters would have less techie and more management content&quot; - depends on the individual course.

 

[willir]

oc2iowa

Okay, you have a large array of transferable skills, and a proven track record.

And now you want to step back to a &quot;past life&quot; that was more enjoyable. Ahh, the &quot;good old days&quot; ;-)

Why?

You state you do not like management, and I understand why, but you do not why you enjoyed programming. When you were a programmer, did you like the job because of the technical and intellectual challenges, problem solving, or the freedom, or ???

An MCSD would be a quick way to learn the current technology, and open some doors. But, the programming world may not be what you remember it as.

Something to consider is getting advice from a career consultant. They cost a few bucks, but those I know who used this service really thought they got their money's worth from the consultants.

You may find some paths &quot;moving up&quot; to the consultant, research and advanced engineering level may be more suitable to your needs and skills than to move back.

Good luck

 

[oc2iowa]

thanks for your comments willir

As to what I liked about my previous job - yep all the things you list &quot;technical and intellectual challenges, problem solving, or the freedom&quot;.

What does suprise me is your comment of &quot;But, the programming world may not be what you remember it as&quot;. I accept that all jobs change over time but has programming really altered that much? I'd be grateful for any advice.


I'll look into your suggestion of career consultants - thanks

 

[willir]

oc2iowa

It will depend on your environment.

Many companies used to have their own programmers, but now many are outsourcing. Moreover, there seems to be trend in outsourcing to third world countries.

I currently provide services for a large company; they laid off most of their technical people, and centralized their services to their head office. And now many of the programming tasks are assigned over seas. Turn-around is dead slow, but the company believes these changes are saving them money.

In a university environment and an engineering environment, where turn around has to be fast, tasks are unique, I think programmers will enjoy some security.

In software houses, big and small, there is tremendous pressure -- dewindling stock prices, fall of the tech stocks, dewindling demand as companies freeze capital expenditures -- all lead to a very competitive environment. Businesses are cutting costs.


Next, change in software practices...

I am not sure how far back you go -- back to the speghetti coding style, or after the push has been made for modulizing code.

When I worked for software houses, there was a definite trend for contracting out, and training and education opportunities became less and less.

Any way, got to go...

 

[unixtechie]

AHHHH! And how I desire to obtain a teaching position at a 4-year college where there is almost certain job security.

Having a Master's degree in Education, I am considering getting a Master's in MIS or an MBA with/IS concentration to strengthen my qualifications for a college teaching position; given my 10 years in the IT industry.

 

[oc2iowa]

Dear unixtechie
re:
AHHHH! And how I desire to obtain a teaching position at a 4-year college where there is almost certain job security.

Having a Master's degree in Education, I am considering getting a Master's in MIS or an MBA with/IS concentration to strengthen my qualifications for a college teaching position; given my 10 years in the IT industry.


You want to teach!? are you certain about this
I assume from your post that you're based in the USA - you know it might seem a weird thing to say but you can be over-qualified. I see a lot of CVs from prospective teachers and the one that that makes a CV stand out for me is previous teaching experience. Now, you may have this already but if you don't I think your attractiveness as a employee would be much increased if you could show evidence of teaching. Have you considered the following:

Volunteer work at shelters/refugee centers/childrens homes/charities/elderly care homes to show some basic IT skills. Very often these places have computers but people don't make enough use of them.

Offer to help out at a local school (if you have children this helps!) again, they are usually understaffed and would welcome some industry knowledge. You could also offer to arrange a visit to your place of work so the children get to see a &quot;real computer job&quot;.

Let's say your ultimate hope is to teach Adv Networking - if a school offered you the chance to teach a basic drawing package to 7 year olds you might refuse on the grounds that it has no relveance for you. Don't the experience you'll gain of dealing with people (however small) is invaluable. Get references for as many of these as you can and then try applying again. If you are prepared to work p/t that will greatly increase your chances. As I'm sure you're aware - there is a lot of competition - make yourself stand out.

Do you still have links with your old university? could you contact them and ask them if they would be prepared to let you volunteer a few hours in their computer labs, helping students? If you can work sat morn or evenings that should go a long way to making you very popular!

If I had to choose between someone with 100% knowledge and no evidence of social skills or 50% knowledge and evidenc of social skills I know which I'd choose. Teachers who talk to the wall and seem unable to make eye contact with students are not in demand!

Best of Luck

 

[oc2iowa]

Dear williar

Thanks for your comments.

As to &quot;programming tasks are assigned over seas.&quot; - ain't that just the case. Frightening how much work has been relocated.


Salaries on

http://www.itmoonlighter.com

(the old

http://www.guru.com)

aren't too horrific though - maybe that's the way we'll all have get used to working in the future

 

[unixtechie]

oc2iowa:

Yes, I am certain about teaching, and yes I am from/in the USA; having been a graduate teaching assistant and adjunct faculty as a lecturer the desire exists - more each day!

There are contacts at my University that I talk to from time to time, most notably my former supervising professor. He has told me a couple of times there is a great demand for PhD's in MIS and they cannot keep them for more than a year at my graduate University because they get a year of teaching and leave for higher pay and more prestige at another University.

I understand what you are saying about experience. I have always thought that if a position, say Marketing opened up at a University and there were two candidates: 1) BA, MA, PhD in Marketing with no work experience, only school straight throught; 2) BA, MBA w/Mktg concentration and 10 years work experince working up to a Brand Mgr. with a Fortune 1000 company.

My guess is that the hiring delegates at the University are going to take the PhD over experience because in a University setting where research is paramount the terminal degree is everything. However, in a smaller 4-year college and maybe a private 4-year college where no research takes place, then the MBA/Brand Mgr. would have a very good chance at the position.

Getting a MBA or MA in IS/IT I thought would give me a stronger hand in hiring even though I have been in IT for 10 years and my Masters is in Education (measurement & eval, curriculum devel, etc.). My hope is to be teaching within 5 years and leave the corporate world behind for good. I feel very much at home on a University campus and love the atmosphere, so that is what I desire for the future.