MCSD cert question 1

[Guest_imported]

I just graduated from college with a degree in Anthropology, and now I'm looking into programming and the MCSD certification. I have taken a C programming course as well as some computer graphics courses in school, and I was wondering, what one has to do to break into the field? Do many MCSD's start from scratch, what kind of background do they have? Is it possible for me to get certified and then get a job? ...anyjob that would give me programming experience. I went to the Microsoft website and they recomended that a person have at least two years of brograming experience before starting the mcsd track.

Now I've looked into training centers, and they only preach about the money one can make when certified, mentioning little else in terms of getting a real job afterward. I also have a question about training costs... I got a quote for the entire training, from A+ to the MSCD cert for eleven grand...It seems steep to me... any thoughts?

I would like to be as informed as possible before I invest time and money into an endeavor such as this...ANy help or advice however small would be much appreciated...Thanks Brian

 

[DougP]

Being a programmer for 10 years or more. I have found the best way to learn a new language is to have a project.
Say your child is in little league and you want to make a program to track their stats. Or the school wants to track library books. Or...you get the picture. if you have a goal to reach with your program its more meanful. When you get a job as a programmer they are going to give you a goal.
"Create a new voting system for this darn country".

Then you will remember it much better as you strugggle to make the program work. Plus keep all of your code in a folder called (in My case dougcode). I create a new Notepad doc and put code and explanations in it. Then name the doc something meaningfull Like "Add Labels to form Programatically.txt" this is one form My access sub folder.

2 rules in programming "Danielson".
Rule #1. Always backup of your code as you program.
Rule #2. Never forget rule Number 1 !!!!

OK, Programing can be difficult to learn, but once mastered is very rewarding. One day "You will Be the Master".


DougP, MCP
dposton@universal1.com

Ask me how Bar-codes can help you be more productive.

 

[rspainhour]

I agree with DougP. Working on an MCSD without working with the products would be difficult. Products such as Visual SourceSafe are asked about when taking the VB exams for example. Check with your school and see if any employers are looking for co-ops as a way to get in the door and earn practical experience.

Whatever you do concentrate on one language to start. C++ may be some place to start as you have some C training although VB would not be too hard to pick up.

This is my own opinion, but probably the easiest path for gaining the MCSD is take the VB exams (desktop & enterprise), architecure, and visual interdev.

Hope this helps.

 

[GDX]

Do you guys think its better to attend college to get a degree in say...Computer science? Or do work on your own with books and/or attend bootcamps? Gordon R. Durgha
gd@vslink.net

http://www.vslink.net

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=1217371

 

[jonscott8]

I would say...do both.

Degrees have always been, and will always be, highly respected from a corporate perspective, because it typically requires years of commitment to obtain.

However,IMO, a degree only demonstrates two things:
1. The person can be taught.
2. The person, more than likely, has the perserverance to go the distance, and not quit 1 month into the job.

Certifications on the other hand, demonstrate a level of applied knowledge. The employee is expected to be productive immediately after hire.

I would recommend attending college and earning a degree as a first priority. While attending college, invest your time experimenting & learning the products you plan to get certified in after graduation. Some certifications require many months(even years) to gain a thorough enough knowledge to pass. Jon Hawkins
jonscott8@yahoo.com

The World Is Headed For Mutiny,
When All We Want Is Unity. - Creed

 

[cavesdn]

My advice would be to start working toward certification by taking classes while you look for an internship or perhaps a position as a tester (no coding involved). Practical experience is going to be the key to both certification and landing a full-time job. MCSD certification in particular tests you applied knowledge rather than your book knowledge. On a positive note, I'm working with a guy right now who majored in math, but like you he decided he wanted to break into the IS field after taking a computer class. Now he's testing and debugging our applications and doing a hell of a job.

 

[otus]

It seems like awful lot of people highly respect that people know something like: After operating system version 4.0389 you must use SpawnThreadEx, instead of SpawnThread, because of the subtle bug in file caching system.

I think it's sad that this kind of knowledge is highly valuable in our societies. It doesn't have anything to do with real life and what's even worse: It doesn't have much to do with thinking and brains.

-Otus

 

[culshaja]

Just getting on my soap box here, but the MCSD does not teach you how to program, it only teaches you how to use Visual Basic/Visual C++/Visual FoxPro.

The best way to learn how to program - the theory and the practice - not a language, is to either do a programming fundamentals course or do a degree in computer science.

I have seen too many people attend language courses and/or have certifications, and they don't know the basics about good programming. This is why half the programs that are written do not perform up to scratch, or are bug ridden.

I currently work for a major international IT firm and this problem exists within there.

My advice would be to learn programming techniques first and then get some experience. That is far more valuable than undertsanding any specific language. Once you know how to program then go for the MCSD to prove a degree of understanding in that particular language/technology/architecture.

James James Culshaw
jculshaw@active-data-solutions.co.uk

http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk

http://www.brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=193305

 

[Beesknees]

I agree with jculshaw. I have written numerous VB apps and developed excellent programming practices over the past 2 years. It still took 3 attempts to pass the VB exam. Why? Because I failed to recognize key terminology and Microsft concepts rather than concentrating on good programming techniques.
I think the Microsoft Certification program is useless without on-the-job experience.