StevenLewis
Programmer
Can anyone confirm that May 7 is still a go for the latest Maint Release of 4.0?????
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Maint Release May 7??
- Thread starter StevenLewis
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Doz,
I read here, and service systems with 4.0 to keep up with the times, and I agree that falling behind is not a good thing. I got my PA's on the IPO in NOV 2005 before I ever touched an IPO, so I obviously do not like being behind. The thing is, I cannot benefit myself to stay with the times, at the expense of my customer. These issues effect deployment completion, performance, uptime, in essence the bottomline of the customer, forget the bottom line of the BP. Until the things that are broken by the new release are fixed the customer is effected, even if you find a workaround to bandaid it, there is most often some loss of functionality if at least the time it takes to put the bandaid on.
I suppose if everyone else is jumping off a cliff, I should also, and take my customer with me. I could miss out on the new features if they are actually used, and how they do, or do not work. I agree, experience is the best teacher, and with 4.0 you get a lot of "experience", and it is the latest, and umm, great test opportunity. There are patches, and workarounds in every release as you say, but not in every implementation as you know is about the standard with 4.0 I understand that change is the only constant in this field, and learning is part of that. The fact is that 4.0 is the art of learning what not to do more so than how it should be done if it worked right.
Sometimes learning from all of the problems you encounter means staying away from new releases until the maint release comes out, and accepting that without being discouraged.
I am encouraged by the maint releases, and confidant in them as quality work I can inflict on a customer.
I read here, and service systems with 4.0 to keep up with the times, and I agree that falling behind is not a good thing. I got my PA's on the IPO in NOV 2005 before I ever touched an IPO, so I obviously do not like being behind. The thing is, I cannot benefit myself to stay with the times, at the expense of my customer. These issues effect deployment completion, performance, uptime, in essence the bottomline of the customer, forget the bottom line of the BP. Until the things that are broken by the new release are fixed the customer is effected, even if you find a workaround to bandaid it, there is most often some loss of functionality if at least the time it takes to put the bandaid on.
I suppose if everyone else is jumping off a cliff, I should also, and take my customer with me. I could miss out on the new features if they are actually used, and how they do, or do not work. I agree, experience is the best teacher, and with 4.0 you get a lot of "experience", and it is the latest, and umm, great test opportunity. There are patches, and workarounds in every release as you say, but not in every implementation as you know is about the standard with 4.0 I understand that change is the only constant in this field, and learning is part of that. The fact is that 4.0 is the art of learning what not to do more so than how it should be done if it worked right.
Sometimes learning from all of the problems you encounter means staying away from new releases until the maint release comes out, and accepting that without being discouraged.
I am encouraged by the maint releases, and confidant in them as quality work I can inflict on a customer.
Sure Avaya could do better job in testing the software, but also they have field trial so the ones peforming the field trials should spend more time testing the software.
I think the field trial window is to short though, this time a bit over a month.
Still, some issues have slipped into new releases, even maint ones, that you think should have been caught before release.
Sure, it's not a good thing to install a new "untested" release on a customer, even worse on an unhappy customer. But if it doesn't get installed, how do you expect the issues to be found?
The fewer systems that get new releases the more maint releases it will take before the bugs are found, and before that people have already jumped on the next big (and hype-ed) release.
I think the field trial window is to short though, this time a bit over a month.
Still, some issues have slipped into new releases, even maint ones, that you think should have been caught before release.
Sure, it's not a good thing to install a new "untested" release on a customer, even worse on an unhappy customer. But if it doesn't get installed, how do you expect the issues to be found?
The fewer systems that get new releases the more maint releases it will take before the bugs are found, and before that people have already jumped on the next big (and hype-ed) release.
All the people who stay back from the new GA release drive resources to the previous releases maint release as a priority over a new GA release since it lacks users.
then the old release gains more stability by getting the resources longer, and stronger rather than moving on before the product is ready.
Lastly, for feature requests from Avaya we as channel partners should be requesting improved performing features not new features, stability as a feature request, a moratorium on new feature development/releases until we have 3/4 of the open CQ's currently open fixed. they just ride onto the next release anyway, and get slated for fixes two releases out, or more.
I would suggest staying with 4.0, and maint releases to it, for the next year. When they get it right, then maybe add a few new features to it without so much change at once.
My final suggestions:
Install the oldest supported maint release available which has the feature sets for the project requirements. Do not upgrade unless it is broken, don't fix it. Stay as far away from the latest and great test as possible, for as long as possible to keep the resopurces focused on the bulk of the sytems, and keep the fix requests coming for the oldest supported releases as long as possible. That will hopefully impact the manpower distribution to the fixes we so dearly need. Level with your managers, about implementation times on new releases being 20% more than older release so they see the labor cost is 20% more, and do not push it as it cuts the margins. Remind sales reps if they commission on profit, pushing a more labor intense release does not increase their ,margin, or their commission.
then the old release gains more stability by getting the resources longer, and stronger rather than moving on before the product is ready.
Lastly, for feature requests from Avaya we as channel partners should be requesting improved performing features not new features, stability as a feature request, a moratorium on new feature development/releases until we have 3/4 of the open CQ's currently open fixed. they just ride onto the next release anyway, and get slated for fixes two releases out, or more.
I would suggest staying with 4.0, and maint releases to it, for the next year. When they get it right, then maybe add a few new features to it without so much change at once.
My final suggestions:
Install the oldest supported maint release available which has the feature sets for the project requirements. Do not upgrade unless it is broken, don't fix it. Stay as far away from the latest and great test as possible, for as long as possible to keep the resopurces focused on the bulk of the sytems, and keep the fix requests coming for the oldest supported releases as long as possible. That will hopefully impact the manpower distribution to the fixes we so dearly need. Level with your managers, about implementation times on new releases being 20% more than older release so they see the labor cost is 20% more, and do not push it as it cuts the margins. Remind sales reps if they commission on profit, pushing a more labor intense release does not increase their ,margin, or their commission.
intrigrant
Systems Engineer
From a technical point of view most of you are right : the best thing to install is the latest Maint release of any given version.
But a customer who wants to buy a new system always wants to buy the latest and newest version.
What do you say to such a cust if he is expecting to get 4.0 and you give him 3.2? Or if your sales men only sell 3.2 and your neighbour sells 4.0?
I don't think there is a choiche if you want to win the competition, but as a engineer you do have the ability to talk the customer to a stable version, if he wants something wich you know it will lead to disaster then tell him that and tell him why, then you can be of more value to them as just another guy implementing a communications platform.
But a customer who wants to buy a new system always wants to buy the latest and newest version.
What do you say to such a cust if he is expecting to get 4.0 and you give him 3.2? Or if your sales men only sell 3.2 and your neighbour sells 4.0?
I don't think there is a choiche if you want to win the competition, but as a engineer you do have the ability to talk the customer to a stable version, if he wants something wich you know it will lead to disaster then tell him that and tell him why, then you can be of more value to them as just another guy implementing a communications platform.
Also, when a module has to be replaced, when you receive a replacement, it might be a newer module than the one you had previously and the new module won't work unless you upgrade to higher version. So I would keep upgrading when possible.
Keep up to date or it will leave you in the dust.
"The lack of money is the root of all evil
Keep up to date or it will leave you in the dust.
"The lack of money is the root of all evil
If the other than technical people choose their words carefully it makes our jobs easier. Which means do not even mention which version will be implemented, and if asked, a good response might be soemthing like.
Our technical team will gather information on your project, and devise a project plan leveraging your hardware with the most beneficial software based on their technical expertise, and what will perform best for your specific application of the technology. We test, trial, and evaluate all software releases, and implement the best possible match for your specific project needs based on that proccess.
In other words, let the techs talk tech, and have the sales guy sell what he needs to sell, but not make the decisions on how to deliver what he sold.
Besides that, if the sales guy says we do not implement that release because although it meets Avaya's high standards of quality, and reliability we have higher standards than the marketplace, and make decisions on platforms based on those standards.
Any othew suggested approaches??? let's hear them.
Our technical team will gather information on your project, and devise a project plan leveraging your hardware with the most beneficial software based on their technical expertise, and what will perform best for your specific application of the technology. We test, trial, and evaluate all software releases, and implement the best possible match for your specific project needs based on that proccess.
In other words, let the techs talk tech, and have the sales guy sell what he needs to sell, but not make the decisions on how to deliver what he sold.
Besides that, if the sales guy says we do not implement that release because although it meets Avaya's high standards of quality, and reliability we have higher standards than the marketplace, and make decisions on platforms based on those standards.
Any othew suggested approaches??? let's hear them.
in this case with 4.0 it is difficult
a lot of customers want sip
but everybody knowsthat new features break old features
but 4.0 is tested for along time
not every situation can be tested in a field trial
also don't forget that a complete new device is added and also a new kind of software (standard and professional edition)
i think it is great that is done
i also think that in a while the small office and 406 will be replaced by the ip500 (i think this ,i have no info or what so ever)
so probably in time it will be a lot more stable then i is right now
also every system has it's own problems with stability
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
a lot of customers want sip
but everybody knowsthat new features break old features
but 4.0 is tested for along time
not every situation can be tested in a field trial
also don't forget that a complete new device is added and also a new kind of software (standard and professional edition)
i think it is great that is done
i also think that in a while the small office and 406 will be replaced by the ip500 (i think this ,i have no info or what so ever)
so probably in time it will be a lot more stable then i is right now
also every system has it's own problems with stability
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
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