StevenLewis
Programmer
Can anyone confirm that May 7 is still a go for the latest Maint Release of 4.0?????
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Maint Release May 7??
- Thread starter StevenLewis
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Been told today by an instructor 20th. If my memory serves (which it sometimes doesn't!!!)
Jamie Green
ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office
Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!
Jamie Green
ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office
Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!
BoyRacer1001
Programmer
Is on trial release now, scheduled for GA May 31st as Platinumguy says.
Suspect there will another release before then, still a couple of biggesh ones to be fixed.
Suspect there will another release before then, still a couple of biggesh ones to be fixed.
crashtest1000
Vendor
How are you getting on with the Maint release. We want to deploy it at a couple sites but don't know what to expect 
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
PlatinumGuy
Instructor
I have to say i haver been an advocate of staying away from the first version of a new release until the first GA.
However i have over time got more and more miffed with this first version of 4.
It has not been the best release by any means.
However i have over time got more and more miffed with this first version of 4.
It has not been the best release by any means.
PlatinumGuy
Instructor
Yes aarenot, after the recent events with v4 i would now agree.
It is a cutting edge vs. bleeding edge issue in my eyes. Unless there is some pressing issue which requires the new release like a feature which is mission critical. Mission critical also means the feature was promised by the salesperson as part of the deal, not just someone wants it. Mission critical also means that you can not talk the customer out of it by being frank about the new release lacking field testing in the real world, therefore you can not recomend it. Mission critical also means that the customer found out about the new release from some other source than your company as you should never be telling a customer about a new release until the maint release is out.
The cutting edge is great and has enough issues that pop up. These add enough additional expense dealing with them, including the expense of missing time with your life, if you have one in this industry. The pay off in bottom line can often be worth being on the cutting edge.
The bleeding edge is often only a matter of someone wanting it because it is the newest, "latest and greatest" release. This is almost always the opinion of someone who has no technical support experience, like sales guys, or people who do not have to support it. It is almost always unneccessary as the previous release provides all the needed features, and no new features of the "latest and greatest" release are even implemented anyway. Also, the person who decides to use it is never the person who is missing out on his life to deal with it's inevitable issues.
Lastly, the experience you gain is heavily weighted in dealing with the issues/workarounds/support calls/research into the issue/ testing/ patching, etc. of that specific general release, which are all done away with with the maint release a month or two later. Which means most of what you learn from that release is how to fix that releases issues. Upon release of the maint release, you learn the way to deal with most of the general releases issues is to upgrade to the maint release. So what do you really gain, mostly learning to deal with issues that go away by themsleves, had you waited a month or two for the maint release. Then when you upgrade, you probably have to edit your workarounds to go back to the standard way, as the maint release fixed the problem, so you no longer need the work around.
The cutting edge is great and has enough issues that pop up. These add enough additional expense dealing with them, including the expense of missing time with your life, if you have one in this industry. The pay off in bottom line can often be worth being on the cutting edge.
The bleeding edge is often only a matter of someone wanting it because it is the newest, "latest and greatest" release. This is almost always the opinion of someone who has no technical support experience, like sales guys, or people who do not have to support it. It is almost always unneccessary as the previous release provides all the needed features, and no new features of the "latest and greatest" release are even implemented anyway. Also, the person who decides to use it is never the person who is missing out on his life to deal with it's inevitable issues.
Lastly, the experience you gain is heavily weighted in dealing with the issues/workarounds/support calls/research into the issue/ testing/ patching, etc. of that specific general release, which are all done away with with the maint release a month or two later. Which means most of what you learn from that release is how to fix that releases issues. Upon release of the maint release, you learn the way to deal with most of the general releases issues is to upgrade to the maint release. So what do you really gain, mostly learning to deal with issues that go away by themsleves, had you waited a month or two for the maint release. Then when you upgrade, you probably have to edit your workarounds to go back to the standard way, as the maint release fixed the problem, so you no longer need the work around.
but if nobody is using the new versions there won't be a solution for bugs
so don't use and there never will be a new release or at least once in the 10 years
there is no time to stand stil
that is why features are released without testing it for a year
4.0 is tested for months (not weeks)
i have a customer that was upgraded to 4.0 at the field trial
because of some internal movemenst etc etc etc they are still on a fieldtrial version and have no issues at all
maybe the just don't report them but i don't believe that
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
so don't use and there never will be a new release or at least once in the 10 years
there is no time to stand stil
that is why features are released without testing it for a year
4.0 is tested for months (not weeks)
i have a customer that was upgraded to 4.0 at the field trial
because of some internal movemenst etc etc etc they are still on a fieldtrial version and have no issues at all
maybe the just don't report them but i don't believe that
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
If things worked they way we should, half of us would be out of a job!!!
And lets face it. We all love a challenge!!!!
Jamie Green
ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office
Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!
And lets face it. We all love a challenge!!!!
Jamie Green
ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office
Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!
tlpeter,
If less people are using the new releases, and are delaying the implementation of the new releases then there will be less pressure to put out new releases. This might shift resources to getting the existing releases worked out prior to shifting resources to the new release. In the end, the next release would most probably be better for it, as it came from a more refined product. I am not saying do not move forward, but one more maint release prior to the next major release would probably be a good compromise between bleeding, and cutting edge. It would also give the customer some stability, non-issue ridden, non-workaround discovering time to become more confidant in the product before making them a field test lab rat again. It would improve the reputation of the product with the techs, customer IT staff, customer system administrators, users, tech forum members, competitors, etc. There is nothing like a product you are confidant in, and it shows when you are. I can not fake it when it comes to a new GA release, maint releases I am confidant in being better than the previous, and I do not have to fake it. To be quite blunt, faking it is lying, I am not a good liar.
Here is the challenge I prefer.
I already make phone systems do things the factory says it will not do, or they will not support. I have numerous times in my 15 years had customer contacts call me after buying a system on the cheap from my competitor saying they can not perform when in reality they are performing just not with an attitude of "Avaya can not do it, but I can". Then they kick out the other vendor and we support their system but no warranty since we did not sell it, all T & M. Or a national/regional company IT guy calls and says, the manager at our site says you have the system doing XYZ, we have 25 other sites with this system, and our vendors say it can not do what you have it doing, can you help us out here with our other sites? That is a better way to work out a challenge, rather than fixing crap that doesn't even work the way it should. I do like a challenge, I enjoy being the hero just like the next guy, but I prefer it to get me to above and beyond customer expectation, not just to get the system to perform to a level that the customer decides not to rip it off the wall any longer.
It does give us job security to some degree if the boss understand the product is the issue when you tell him the upgrading will take 2 hours, and the troubleshooting after will take 6 hours, plus however long it takes to get a private build from Avaya if needed.
If less people are using the new releases, and are delaying the implementation of the new releases then there will be less pressure to put out new releases. This might shift resources to getting the existing releases worked out prior to shifting resources to the new release. In the end, the next release would most probably be better for it, as it came from a more refined product. I am not saying do not move forward, but one more maint release prior to the next major release would probably be a good compromise between bleeding, and cutting edge. It would also give the customer some stability, non-issue ridden, non-workaround discovering time to become more confidant in the product before making them a field test lab rat again. It would improve the reputation of the product with the techs, customer IT staff, customer system administrators, users, tech forum members, competitors, etc. There is nothing like a product you are confidant in, and it shows when you are. I can not fake it when it comes to a new GA release, maint releases I am confidant in being better than the previous, and I do not have to fake it. To be quite blunt, faking it is lying, I am not a good liar.
Here is the challenge I prefer.
I already make phone systems do things the factory says it will not do, or they will not support. I have numerous times in my 15 years had customer contacts call me after buying a system on the cheap from my competitor saying they can not perform when in reality they are performing just not with an attitude of "Avaya can not do it, but I can". Then they kick out the other vendor and we support their system but no warranty since we did not sell it, all T & M. Or a national/regional company IT guy calls and says, the manager at our site says you have the system doing XYZ, we have 25 other sites with this system, and our vendors say it can not do what you have it doing, can you help us out here with our other sites? That is a better way to work out a challenge, rather than fixing crap that doesn't even work the way it should. I do like a challenge, I enjoy being the hero just like the next guy, but I prefer it to get me to above and beyond customer expectation, not just to get the system to perform to a level that the customer decides not to rip it off the wall any longer.
It does give us job security to some degree if the boss understand the product is the issue when you tell him the upgrading will take 2 hours, and the troubleshooting after will take 6 hours, plus however long it takes to get a private build from Avaya if needed.
Initially I was encouraged with the initial relaese of 4.0 that Avaya had done a decent job of checking the software before releasing it. However, I am more aggrivated now than ever before with this release of software. Obvious issues, ones you can't miss, were allowed to go out with this release.
I believe in testing the new software for a couple of in the office to size it up and once you have determined its nature you put it in the field on new installs only. I need to know what it can do in an enviroment other than our office.
I will not upgrade an existing customer to the new version, only maintenance releases.
Avaya is doing a terrible job of testing releases before they go GA. I have found 4 big bugs: Outcalling, line 9 on ATM16,Hunt group members stop ringing, Hunt group forwarding to VM. Plus the changes they made to Idial. And Visual voice is weak with the lack of beeps to prompt you when to start and stop. These are so obvious! BUGVAYA, do a better job!
I believe in testing the new software for a couple of in the office to size it up and once you have determined its nature you put it in the field on new installs only. I need to know what it can do in an enviroment other than our office.
I will not upgrade an existing customer to the new version, only maintenance releases.
Avaya is doing a terrible job of testing releases before they go GA. I have found 4 big bugs: Outcalling, line 9 on ATM16,Hunt group members stop ringing, Hunt group forwarding to VM. Plus the changes they made to Idial. And Visual voice is weak with the lack of beeps to prompt you when to start and stop. These are so obvious! BUGVAYA, do a better job!
crumthwacket
Vendor
I posted a comment on this forum some time ago about complaining in public about the IP Office - we all sell it or support it but otherwise make a living from it. I made an "about face" a couple of weeks ago - but retracted a scathing assesment of the system and the developers in this forum because I thought it was inappropriate, but I really do need to vent. Bear in mind I'm writing from the perspective of a US dealer, and I don't want to offend readers outside the US.
If Avaya monitors this forum they should realize that we're their biggest supporters. They're losing this support because of carelessness or incompetence or greed - the system is a mess and doesn't have to be. They should be embarrassed with this effort, and make any necessary changes to the people or processes involved in it's development. Avaya doesn't have the money or prestige that Lucent Technologies (and before them AT&T) had. Right now IP Office is crappy: it has more features than the Legend/Magix but can't compare in terms of reliability. In my opinion, IP stations local to the system aren't nearly as important as IP stations deployed in someone's home or remote facility. Give us that function - a reliable, easy to install, simple to maintain remote station - and clean up the mess currently on the plate - and go from there. Gas prices are getting out of control, and we could make a killing seliing this system if we knew it was reliable.
If Avaya monitors this forum they should realize that we're their biggest supporters. They're losing this support because of carelessness or incompetence or greed - the system is a mess and doesn't have to be. They should be embarrassed with this effort, and make any necessary changes to the people or processes involved in it's development. Avaya doesn't have the money or prestige that Lucent Technologies (and before them AT&T) had. Right now IP Office is crappy: it has more features than the Legend/Magix but can't compare in terms of reliability. In my opinion, IP stations local to the system aren't nearly as important as IP stations deployed in someone's home or remote facility. Give us that function - a reliable, easy to install, simple to maintain remote station - and clean up the mess currently on the plate - and go from there. Gas prices are getting out of control, and we could make a killing seliing this system if we knew it was reliable.
I ma not to the point of saying that the IPO is crap, in fact, I think it is a good system. I would however never willingly install, service or support any new rlease of software until the maint release comes out at least. I may even wait until the second maint release. I do not have any major issues with 3.1.65, or 3.2.54, but I have not even considered 4.0 yet.
From what I have heard, seen, had shared with me by coworkers, and close friends, 4.0 is not ready for me to start testing it for field deployment yet. I will probably not test the first maint release of 4.0 either as the GA seems to be bad enough that the 1st maint release will probably be to the quality level most GA releases have been at which is not ready for primtime. The second maint release is probably where I will start testing the release for field deployment. There are too many known issues at this point for me to even mess with it.
From what I have heard, seen, had shared with me by coworkers, and close friends, 4.0 is not ready for me to start testing it for field deployment yet. I will probably not test the first maint release of 4.0 either as the GA seems to be bad enough that the 1st maint release will probably be to the quality level most GA releases have been at which is not ready for primtime. The second maint release is probably where I will start testing the release for field deployment. There are too many known issues at this point for me to even mess with it.
In my opinion, I would keep up with times. If you don't install 4.0, you will miss out on new features and how they work. Experience is the best teacher. 4.0 is the latest and the greatest. There is patches and work arounds in every release. My advice is to learn from all the problems that you encounter and don't get discouraged.
"The lack of money is the root of all evil
"The lack of money is the root of all evil
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