Lowballing, clueless or a trend? 1

[MasterRacker]

I know the market is bad but this is amazing to me:

==========================================================
Web Programmer Employment Opportunity

We now have an exciting opening for a Web Programmer. Utilize your expert knowledge in Perl and HTML to design and develop various web-based applications including content management and e-commerce systems. This position is a temporary position, however permanent advancement opportunities may exist for motivated individuals.

Purpose: The purpose of this position is to assist with web development and create web-based Perl applications for a Linux system using CGI. Web-based applications include content management systems, e-commerce systems, and other various scripts as assigned for new and existing web sites. This position also provides system design and programming assistance for other projects as assigned.

Essential Duties:
• Developing web-based Perl applications for Linux servers
(using Komodo and HomeSite editors on Windows platform)
• Editing HTML
(using HomeSite editor on Windows platform)
• Debugging web-based Perl applications
(using Komodo on Windows platform and live on Linux servers)
• Creating and using flat text databases via Perl
• Providing insight/programming for alternate database formats
• Editing and proofreading text
• Documenting Perl scripts and applications
• Maintaining production logs/database
• Providing support and training for web-based Perl apps
• General office duties including answering telephones
• Communicating with clients regarding web projects

Qualifications:
• Exceptional attention to detail.
• Advanced Perl programming experience using CGI.
• Advanced HTML programming experience.
• Advanced programming experience utilizing databases.
• Excellent communication skills.
• Outgoing, friendly personality.
• Technical documentation experience.
• Outstanding time management skills.
• Diagnosis and troubleshooting skills.
• Experience with Microsoft Office.
• Knowledge of Microsoft Windows, Linux, & Mac platforms.
• Advanced knowledge of Internet file formats.
• Experience with HomeSite & Komodo preferred.
• Web design skills preferred.
• PHP programming experience preferred.
• Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications experience preferred.
• E-commerce/marketing knowledge preferred.

Compensation: $13-17 per hour
(benefits are not available to temporary employees)
========================================================

Note the use of the term "expert" in the ad and compare that to the rate they're offering. They have another position that pays even less.

I've seen one other posting in my area similar to this that's been up for a couple of months. That company is probaby wondering where all the unemployed talent is.

Is there a lot of this in other cities as well? I'm curious.



Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[GlenJohnson]

I'm voting clueless.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K
glen@johnsoncomputers.us

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

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[Gatorajc]

Get use to it. Talk about taking advantage of the labor market. Where is this so I know where to avoid.

AJ


If at first you do not succeed, cheat!

 

[chiph]

They're trolling for someone desparate enough to take the job.

Of course, they aren't doing themselves any favors, as whoever they hire will be gone as soon as they find a better-paying job, and then the company will have to pay their recruiter all over again to find a replacement.

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[MasterRacker]

gatorjac,
It's in Minneapolis.

As I've said I've seen a couple of other companies do this too. Even in this market, the ads tend to stay out there a long time. Kind of amazing. (and scary.)




Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[edemiere]

Yeah, in this tight market, everyone seems to be looking for someone with 10 years experience in a technology thats only 3 years old, and then expect to pay them $7.

It is a frightening trend that they want everything but don't want to pay for it.

A lot of the problem lies with all these "self proclaimed" IT experts...

*shudders at the thought of working with goobers like that*

Cheers!

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

To me... (and this is a little off subject) companies still see IT as an expense. In many ways, we are. We don't bring in money and sure don't sell anything. Our "money making" is intangable. Saving $100 a month here, saving 1.5 million there. But from what I have seen most don't think of the intangable.

iSeriesCodePoet
iSeries Programmer/Lawson Software Administrator

See my progress to converting to linux.

http://koldark.hopto.org/linux/

The Programmer's Knowledge Base ->

http://koldark.hopto.org/twiki/bin/view/Programkb/WebHome

 

[Rickab]

By looking at the ad it looks like they spent more on it than they are will to pay for the position.

I've seen it before low pay, low effort, low results.

 

[cyclegeek]

The rate sounds low. The line about answering telephones seems to indicate something but I can't put my finger on it. It doesn't sound like a non-profit firm - they're usually pretty clueless. And I hardly ever see listings that include the rate. Is the cost of living in Minneapolis that low? Bottom line - they're hosers.

 

[GlenJohnson]

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/6568352.htm

Here's what they will get for there money, and it's what they deserve.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K
glen@johnsoncomputers.us

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

Want to get great answers to your Tek-Tips questions? Have a look at FAQ219-2884

"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn return to the same box."

 

[dilettante]

I think the author of that news article was a little hard on Microsoft. They have tools like SUS available:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/windowsupdate/sus/default.asp

The problem is getting your typical "network administrator," "desktop administrator," etc. to install them and take advantage of them is a chore. At one of my customers' sites (a large outfit) these people were whining that "somebody should have warned us" when they were caught flat-footed by Blaster after having done squat about deploying that RPC fix when it was made available.

 

[GlenJohnson]

Agreed. That was my point. How many of us in the IT field are not working in IT, but the corporations not wanting to pay us to take care of problems like Lockheeds will someday wake up and realize they need us.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K
glen@johnsoncomputers.us

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

Want to get great answers to your Tek-Tips questions? Have a look at FAQ219-2884

"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn return to the same box."

 

[SPguru]

Maybe I am the only one, however, what the job description stated is not difficult and clearly seems to be beginning to intermediate level work in web development. Nothing in that ad indicates high pay because there are no high-level expert skills.

 

[MDXer]

It is probably a combination of both Low balling and Cluelessness. But as SPGuru stated there are no high level skills required. The add states
The purpose of this position is to assist with web development and create web-based Perl applications for a Linux system using CG
which leads me also to believe it is more entry level they are looking to hire. Personally I look at it as some job is better than no job, and it beats working fast food.

"Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!"
- Daffy Duck

 

[GlenJohnson]

Web-based applications include content management systems, e-commerce systems, and other various scripts as assigned for new and existing web sites. This position also provides system design and programming assistance for other projects as assigned.
e-commerce is anything but simple.

Glen A. Johnson
Johnson Computer Consulting
MCP W2K
glen@johnsoncomputers.us

http://www.johnsoncomputers.us

Want to get great answers to your Tek-Tips questions? Have a look at FAQ219-2884

"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn return to the same box."

 

[CajunCenturion]

“ content management systems, e-commerce systems, and other various scripts?”. Are we talking about systems or scripts? Considering the final Qualification - "E-commerce/marketing knowledge preferred", what they prefer is NOT a heavyweight.

What is or is not simple is merely a subjective judgment on the part of the individual, based on one's own knowledge and experience.

I believe this to be an entry-level position with a fair amount of grunt work on the horizon. This person will be coming on the bottom rung, which is perfectly reasonable, and joining an already existing programming team. In the job Purpose, the primary duty is "to assist". I see nothing in this job description to think it's anything above the most basic entry-level layer.

Given recent topics (spelling and people skills) on the fora, I might be concerned about the following two "Essential Duties"

• Editing and proofreading text
• General office duties including answering telephones
• Communicating with clients regarding web projects

Well, maybe the General office duties won’t be a problem.

I find this to be typical recruiting BS to flower up and generate a lot of oohs and aahs over what is essentially, an office grunt who might be able to build a "Hello World" web page (if the wizards are working).

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[jwenting]

That's about $2500 a month (going from a 40 hour workweek).

While not all that much it's more than I made most of this year doing essentially that same work (writing and maintaining an e-commerce site) except I did it in Java.
I was not just the senior programmer on the team, I WAS the team.

It's simple when you're unemployed (at least out here): take a job, any job, that's offered or you loose your unemployment money (and after a year you loose it anyway, which puts you on social security which is less than half that $2500 a month and getting less).

 

[MasterRacker]

This is not their lowest level entry position. Here's their other current post:
====================================================
Web Production Assistant Employment Opportunity

We now have an exciting opening for a Web Production Assistant. Assist with web site maintenance, design and online development for a diverse clientele. This position provides an excellent learning opportunity in a digital production environment. Advancement opportunities exist for motivated individuals.

Purpose: The purpose of this position is to assist with web development by creating and preparing digital content for web sites. Preparing digital content includes database entry, digital photography, scanning images, editing graphics and HTML for existing web pages, copywriting and proofreading text. This position also provides creative and programming assistance for other projects as assigned.

Advancement: Applicants should be interested in obtaining the skills and experience to move into more advanced web design and development positions with our company.

Essential Duties:
• Photo scanning and image processing/creation
(utilizing ImageReady, Illustrator and Photoshop)
• Editing HTML
(without using FrontPage or other WYSIWYG editors)
• Editing and proofreading text
• Digital photography
• Maintaining content databases
• Maintaining production logs/database
• General office duties including answering telephones
• Communicating with clients regarding web projects
• Meeting with clients regarding web projects
(in-house and at client locations)
• Learning additional programming and design skills

Qualifications:
• Exceptional attention to detail.
• Excellent communication skills.
• Outgoing, friendly personality.
• Experience with HTML.
• Experience with Adobe ImageReady/Photoshop.
• Experience with Microsoft Office.
• Knowledge of Microsoft Windows and Macintosh platforms.
• Advanced knowledge of Internet file formats.
• Experience with HomeSite preferred.
• Digital photography experience preferred.
• E-commerce/marketing knowledge preferred.

Compensation: $10-15 per hour
(plus benefits for full time employees)
====================================================

I accept the points that the first is not a high-level position, however it is expected to be a "programming" position, if a low-level programming position. This second position obviously does not involve development at all.

Whether intentional or not the figures are low and that's the point of my concern. Is this going to be rare or a new trend? I would not argue with jwenting that any job is better than no job. I would even think about the first position myself except that the pay hardly covers the cost of the commute from where I am.

$17.00/hr = about $35K per year. I've been around long enough to remember the market long before the Internet was even public and the dotcom "revolution". Even in the late 80's a starting programmer could expect low 30's which is why I pray this is not a trend.


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[timlittle]

I'm always suspicious when I see job adverts with ridiculously low salaries. Especially when the skills are very specific. I suspect that the company already has a candidate they want in India or China (or where ever) and need to prove to the immigration authorities that they have looked and failed to find anyone suitable in the UK (where I live).

 

[MasterRacker]

Tim , that's a good point I hadn't thought of. In these cases though, they're mentioning "general office duties" which means someone onsite.

I suppose they still could be sham ads to justify something they already have in mind though.


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...