Losing 024-TDL cards constantly

[skicooper]

Running an old Magix system here. 024-TDL is in slot 01. I've had to replace that card at least 8 times in the past year. Sometimes it's just a port or two, so I check the wiring to make sure we're not shorting/arcing somewhere. But it isn't always the same ports that go. And several times, the entire card has failed, leaving the system down completely with either blinking VM lights everywhere, or totally dead. The last failure was interesting: even though the 024-TDL failed completely, leaving the entire digital side of our system dead, the cards to the right kept working, so AA/VM and analog phones were still up. 024-TDL was replaced last week. Now I have 3 dead digitals again, slot 01 won't busy out, and I'm wondering if it's about to cascade through the whole system again...

Any thoughts on a possible cause of this constant failure of the same card in the same slot? Could it be a cabinet/slot failure? Could it be transient voltage from electrical storms (we're on the side of a mountain, so we get some impressive storms, and some of our wiring is overhead)? Any other thoughts?

 

[Dexman]

I would check the power supply and carrier. But do make sure the lines and power are well protected. Is the system being fed by a good UPS?

I "FEATURE 00"

http://dexman.webs.com/

 

[skicooper]

Thanks, Dexman. Yes - I've got the PBX on a monster APC UPS, in good working condition. Will look deeper into the power supply & carrier.

 

[WikiTech]

Make sure your Switch is GROUNDED! Ungrounded switches inevitably have flukey trouble. If your cable from the 024 TDL is punched down on a 66 block. I would remove your bridge clips and replace them with sneak fuses. This has worked for me.

 

[skicooper]

The cabinets are grounded well; just verified.

Just put another 024 in today. Several phones dead again. Ugh.

 

[Dexman]

My suggestion at this point would be to secure a spare main carrier and power supply.

A quick side note, a former participant here on Tek-Tips wrote a discussion about grounding. He was losing Partner ACS processors at a particular customer's location. He saw sparking when he connected the ground wire to building steel and touched the other end of the wire to the ground screw on the processor.

This may not be happening with the Magix, but, just something to keep on the back burner.

I "FEATURE 00"

http://dexman.webs.com/

 

[merlinman]

My thoughts, how far out of the building are any of these sets?

http://merlinmanswebpage.yolasite.com

 

[skicooper]

Merlinman: we have phones all over the place. It's a ski resort, so I have digitals in three different buildings, and some analogs more than a mile from the PBX.

 

[joe2938]

Also for the remote connections, these need to be properly lightning protection on both ends of the cable, this could be what is causing these blown ports!

 

[skicooper]

Yes, I do understand the need for proper grounding and protection. Some of the system is well done, some, unfortunately, is not (and I'll be working my way through it when I can). What is odd about it, however, is that this phone system has been here for more than 10 years, and the problem will the 024-TDL cards blowing just started in the past year. Can't think of any changes we've made that would have opened it up to additional damage...

 

[joe2938]

are the ports that have gone bad connect to the remote phones off site?

 

[skicooper]

joe2938 - it's a mixed bag. It's almost always different ports, some in the same building with the PBX, some in remote locations. That's why I'm struggling a little with troubleshooting this one: it's not a clear cut issue, it seems!

 

[joe2938]

If you do not have a spare slot then you need to replace the chassis, most likely will need to go on the secondary market to purchase one but they still can be found. Some like a back plane issue with slot 1

 

[skicooper]

I have free slots, but I was under the impression that you couldn't leave a slot empty to the left. Is that correct, or am I mistaken? If I can leave slot 1 empty, I can just shift everything one card to the right & do a board renumber to see if that helps. (<--- Please forgive my lack of technical knowledge of this particular system)

 

[joe2938]

not 100 % sure about that maybe someone else can tell us for sure

 

[Dexman]

If you have any free slots in the carrier(s), would it be possible to add another 024TDL and move all of the extensions over? If the problem follows the wiring, then it's time to inspect all associated cabling. If it stays with the slot, replace the carrier and power supply.


I "FEATURE 00"

http://dexman.webs.com/

 

[merlinman]

Well, I figured you had off-prem extensions. Basically, they're not made for doing that. However, if you get some EXTREMLY HARDY Lightening Protection, you may be able to prevent some of this. It's not just Lightening,although that's the VERY BAD STUFF, it's the fact that there's a difference in electrical potential between the structures. Hard to over come. Now, if you could connect them wit fiber optics, all would be good. But alas, I do not know of such a thing for this application.

The fact that this is just now cropping up could be due to a change in the moisture content of the soil, thus weakening your grounding connections or any number of other factors.

http://merlinmanswebpage.yolasite.com

 

[Dexman]

Rather than using TDL phones and cards, could you somehow switch over to OPT modules and SLTs?

Another option might be to install small Magix systems in the remote locations and...possibly...connect them together with fiber.

I "FEATURE 00"

http://dexman.webs.com/

 

[merlinman]

Yep, that too. Way back when I was with AT&T (or was it Lucent) there was a "Dude Ranch" up in the foothills that had 012 T&R Extensions all over the place with ZERO Protection of any kind. Not to mention, they were on top of a rather large Rock with virtually no soil what so ever. Needless to say, they were blowing modules left and right. Dexman is correct, using OPT Modules, AND IROBS with single line sets pretty much ended those problems.

http://merlinmanswebpage.yolasite.com

 

[WikiTech]

I proposed sneak fuse protection, that's why it is called "Protection" apparently ignored after posting that it solved a similar issue I encountered years ago, that was 15 posts ago.
All right,Ski Patrol,after considering other contributers recommendations, my final recommendation would be to install an 012 TDL in the next available slot and move half your stations to that slot (every other port out of the 024 card) apply SNEAK FUSE protection in place of bridge clips on both cards. Note: it is always easier replacing sneak fuses than circuit packs.