Local Idioms (again) 1

[2ffat]

Here is a phrase that I grew up with in Idaho but had forgotten about it until I read an article from my home-town newspaper.

Two individuals were standing in the barrow pit near the car. As the officer pulled behind the vehicle, the driver took off, nearly hitting one of the people standing nearby, according to a sheriff's department press release.

(See

http://www.southidahopress.com/articles/2006/06/02/news/local/1arsenal.txt)

Without doing a search, can you guess what a barrow pit is?

It is a popular term in the American West. I discovered that even some states' hunting rules include the term.

James P. Cottingham
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[eyeswideclosed]

The section up front at a wheel barrow speed-metal concert where the crazed wheel barrow fans throw themselves on each other without any regard for their own or fellow wheel barrow's safety...?

 

[grande]

Ditch?

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.

 

[BoxHead]

I'd have to guess 'ditch' as well.

Do you have mushpounders in Idaho like we do in Illinois?

John



Life is short.
Build something.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

If the people were in a ditch, I doubt the car would have nearly hit them. I would guess that in this case the "barrow pit" would be the gutter.

[Cheers]

 

[CajunCenturion]

Isn't a barrow pit a drainage pond?

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[2ffat]

Close "but still no cigar." BTW, I couldn't find the term in Wikipedia. Out west, we used to pronounce it "borrow pit" not that that will help any. We also called the gardening tool a "wheel borrow," too.


James P. Cottingham
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[sleipnir214]

When oil or gas wells are drilled on-shore, the drilling company usually digs a pit next to the rig, into which excess drilling fluid, etc, flows from the drilling operation. I've heard some Montana drilling crew members call that a barrow pit. It's not common, though.


I've also heard my wife's Wyoming in-laws call any kind of pit left when topsoil or gravel is dug out called a barrow pit.



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[PaulTEG]

burro pit, hitching rail, storefront car parking area?

Paul
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Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[jebenson]

Well, going from the clue the OP gave (... some states' hunting rules include the term[/i[), and my many, many readings of Tolkien - barrow wights, anyone? - I have to say it has something to do with the disposal of bodies, body parts, etc., left over after cleaning a kill after hunting. Perhaps also used for disposal of dead livestock?



I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

Arrrr, mateys! Ye needs ta be preparin' yerselves fer Talk Like a Pirate Day! Ye has a choice: talk like a pira

 

[KenCunningham]

Barrows are ancient Brit burial mounds if that helps.

 

[UniqueFD]

Ken, I was thinking the same :-D Remember the barrow-wights in Lord Of The Rings?

Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)

 

[KenCunningham]

Certainly, Tony, as did jebenson it appears! I think Tolkien used several features such as this as part of his landscape.

 

[UniqueFD]

lol - sorry, I didn't see jebenson's post above. (Isn't it a shame they decided to bump that part of the story from the film? I'd like to have seen how they portrayed Tom Bombadil).

Boxhead Would your mushpounder be the same as a spud-basher in Ol' Blighty?

Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)

 

[SantaMufasa]

I am originally an Idaho Spud (born at Magic Valley Memorial Hospital in Twin Falls [for reference: last reasonably priced motels/hotels before you hit Sun Valley/Ketchum, Idaho], so I should probably contribute here:

The correct terminology is a "borrow pit", which comes originally from the notion of "borrowing" (excavating) dirt from one hole for use in yet another place (sometimes another hole).

In common, "modern" usage, in the Western United States in particular, the term "borrow pit" refers generically to either the median area between opposing lanes of motorways/freeways or the area "outside" of the freeway, These "borrow pits" can, in fact, look like ditches since, during freeway construction, engineers direct the roadway-construction workers to excavate (i.e. "borrow") dirt/soil/earth from either the median or from beyond the freeway/motorway for use in "elevating" the roadway's roadbed. This affords proper drainage during rain storms, thus reducing the hazard of vehicle accidents from rain-slickened roadways. Such drainage obviously heads for the "borrow pits" (thus becoming ditches) since the borrow pits are at lower elevations than the road bed.

Therefore, if someone is standing in a "borrow pit", they can theoretically be standing in either the median or off to the outer sides of the roadway.

Does this help explain our "Idahonics" (similar to "Utahnics" and "Ebonics")?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[2ffat]

Some of you are getting very, very warm. I'll tell all later this afternoon (EDT).


James P. Cottingham
-----------------------------------------
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[IknowMe]

My thoughts were with santa, but your last post has left me wondering.

PotHole??

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Yes, MrWilson, I, too, am puzzled about 2ffat's "getting warmer" assessment, since all of the sources that I have checked verify my assertions. I will be fascinated to see 2ffat's sources that contradict (in some fashion) the rather definitive sources that support the explanation above.

For example:

Main Entry: borrow pit Function: noun
: an excavated area where material has been dug for use as fill at another location

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[donbott]

borrow pit, Function : noun
: the local saloon when you are the only customer with a steady job.

DonBott
Chairman
Omnipitence, Ltd.

 

[2ffat]

OK, OK. On narrow country roads in the American west, engineers dig a small trenches along the sides of the road and fill them with loose gravel or small rocks. This does two things. First, it allows slower vehicles, like wagons and farm tractors, to pull over to the side of the road and allow faster vehicle to pass without sinking into the dirt.

Second, it allows runoff from the road to be drained efficiently.

Most people would refer to it as a ditch but in the west, ditches are filled with water for irrigation so I suppose they had to come up with the another term. Where I grew up, you would see a lot of irrigation ditches to one side of the road, too. If you went into the ditch on one of these roads, you usually broke an axle and had to be pulled out with a wrecker. (Where did the term wrecker come from?)

There is some argument over whether the term should be borrow or barrow.

SINCE ``BARROW'' IS MY NAME, I should have known what John ``Bruddy'' Baillio was talking about recently, but I didn't. He was gently chastising the newspapers for referring to a ``barrow pit'' as a ``borrow pit.''

And Baillio really should know. He owns Baillio Sand Co. which operates out of a barrow pit down on Princess Anne Road.

``In the dictionary `barrow' is a description for the material,'' Baillio said, ``a heap of earth or rocks.''

My American Heritage Dictionary does give barrow as the definition for a mound of earth, but it does not give a spelling at all for barrow pit or borrow pit. Webster's gives ``borrow'' as an alternate spelling for a ``barrow pit.''

(

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1994/vp940720/07190147.htm)

A "BORROW PIT" is the place from which soil is "borrowed" for use as fill. Often, soil is borrowed from
the side of a roadway alignment in order to elevate the road and, at the same time, provide drainage along the side. I can't imagine how this got turned into "barrow;" the southern accent, I suppose.
.
.
.
The DARE entries for "barrow ditch" and "barrow
pit" are far too long to copy here, but briefly "barrow ditch"="barrow pit" roadside drainage ditch, chiefly West, esp Rocky Mts.

(

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0010b&L=ads-l&D=1&P=4515)

Other uses of the term can be found here:

In Montana, where a source with the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks told Gun Week she was unaware of the federal restriction, the state law says people “Cannot shoot on, from or across any public highway or the shoulder berm, barrow pit, or right-of-way of any public highway” that is open to vehicle travel. The “barrow pit” in this case might constitute the ditch alongside the road, and some roads do not have formal berms.

(

http://www.gunweek.com/2005/forest0801.html)

I was once told that the term "barrow" did come from the idea of a grave since the filled trenched looked like very long graves but I can't verify that.

I would really like to know where the term really come from.

James P. Cottingham
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