Life beyond Access

[HockeyGuy]

I recently read the thread "Anyone else having trouble finding work?" and find myself facing the same reality. The market appears to be shrinking for MS Access and the desktop database.

I was always so impressed with the power, versatility and ease of use of Access and wondered why nothing came in its wake. Why didn't Microsoft migrate this great tool to a big platform? Are there similar tools for moving beyond the desktop?

I would like to extend the things that I learned with Access and database development to the next generation but I am reluctant to follow down their .NET platform. Is there a clearer path?

 

[JoeAtWork]

For your own sake and for the benefit of your clients, I think you need to get out of your comfort zone and expand your knowledge. If Access is all you know, chances are their are many important design principles you never got to learn. Access has a lot of shortcuts to allow non-professionals to create professional looking programs. But these same shortcuts is why Access can never become "enterprise".

Anything on a "big platform" must be well architected, with multiple abstraction layers. Most Access applications have their UI and business rules tightly coupled, so there is not even that basic layer of abstraction.

What do you object to in the .NET platform? You can write very scaleable, truly "enterprise" applications with it.

Access programming is too small a niche to make a career out of, IMO. For a professional programmer, it should only be an occasional tool to use. You should have a much bigger toolset so you can choose the right platform for any particular solution.

Joe Schwarz
Custom Software Developer

http://www.plandev.net

 

[payback]

I agree with Joe.

I have been developing in Access since 1997 (currently in Access 2007) and recently did a review of a client's needs looking at many options including opensource software.

Although it is going to be hard to "teach an old dog new tricks", I have recently started to teach myself Visual Web Developer and Visual Basic using the free Express editions from Microsoft.

There are a great deal of training videos and documentation available on the Microsoft sites, and of course these two applications let me use a lot of my VBA experience.

 

[fneily]

Why didn't Microsoft migrate this great tool to a big platform?" Starting with Access 2000, they have the Microsoft Database Engine (MSDE) which is a client/server environment and is compatible with SQL server. It can accommodate thousands of users. It is an "enterprise" development tool. It is on your Office 2000 or higher install CD. Maybe you saw files with .ADP, that's Access Project
JoeAtWork made an interesting statement:
"If Access is all you know, chances are their are many important design principles you never got to learn."
All relational Databases are based on Ted Codd's normalization process and relationship concepts. In fact, a large company is based on these principles, Oracle. So, if you know the fundamentals of Access database design, you know the fundamentals of relational database.

 

[PHV]

It can accommodate thousands of users
Doesn't MSDE accommodates only 5 concurrent users ?

 

[JoeAtWork]

Fneily - relational database design is only one layer of an enterprise application. I have found that most programmers who have no experience beyond Access have no concept of abstracting the layers of their application.

They will also invariably "recommend" Access, no matter the scope of the work or the suitability of Access to the solution.

Joe Schwarz
Custom Software Developer

http://www.plandev.net

 

[HockeyGuy]

Guys thanks for piping it. JoeAtWork has a strong body blow with:
"For your own sake and for the benefit of your clients, I think you need to get out of your comfort zone and expand your knowledge. If Access is all you know, chances are their are many important design principles you never got to learn. Access has a lot of shortcuts to allow non-professionals to create professional looking programs."

It is what I am realizing and why I see the work shrinking. Even though I have created some nice tools, even systems, with Access, it is the only solution that I can provide.

I like to think that I know what I am doing but your comment about:
"Most Access applications have their UI and business rules tightly coupled, so there is not even that basic layer of abstraction" has me wondering if I am a rank amateur.

The other reason that I posted was to get a picture of the road ahead. In stating that I didn't go the .NET way, I basically stated my mistrust of MS and their directions. I wasn't sure if they were throwing stuff against the wall to see what would stick. I guess that I didn't trust MS. ADP's were a classic example. Introduced, touted then basically abandoned. I don't want to take companies down dead-end roads. Which brings me back to Access.

Oh, it is a vicious cycle this technology thing.

Thanks for the time and thoughts.

 

[RoyVidar]

> Doesn't MSDE accommodates only 5 concurrent users ?

It's not about number of users, but number of connections. With more than 8 concurrent connections, it will do a bit of "throtling":

"No workload governor

Another important advantage that SQL Server 2005 Express has over MSDE is that it does not have the MSDE workload governor. The MSDE query governor is a widely misunderstood MSDE feature that was intended to limit the type of workloads that MSDE could be used for. The MSDE query governor throttles performance by stalling a user connection for a few milliseconds each time the connection requests a read or write operation on a database when there are more than eight concurrent connections."

from

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2005/msde2sqlexpress.mspx

With bad enough design, it might choke on one user ;-)

Roy-Vidar

 

[petrosky]

PHP/MYSQL?

Remember- It's nice to be important,
but it's important to be nice

 

[BNPMike]

I move from large corporate to large corporate and I must admit I see less and less Access apps as time goes on. I can't think of an evolutionary path. All the action is in the web model and thats a big big step. .NET is a good option but you'll have to run to just to stand still, with the way that keeps changing.

 

[OracleRenegade]

I used to be an access man.

Then I found Oracle.

Sure it takes me longer to build a solution BUT the power and scope of the solution means I would not dream of going back to my Oracle days (I found myself on this forum as someone needed a cheap as chips solution - I would not dream of Access for a corporate solution, thousands of users access my Oracle db with no detioration of performance....

 

[OracleRenegade]

Also try .NET express - there are some very nice tutorials on line you can get started for no outlay and it has a number of very nice built-ins / templates - you may never look back...

 

[HockeyGuy]

Thanks BNPMike and OracleRenegade. Both your insights are simple and true.

I have been reluctant to drink the .NET koolaid because I didn't trust Microsoft and I didn't know if I wanted to get on their treadmill. But your comment that there is no evolutionary path on my current front is accurate.

I will look into the .NET Express options and see what the vista is like (no pun intended).

Thanks again.

 

[MichaelRed]

but there are many other comments throught the community which has gone to (or even tried to go to) .Net approximatly:

.net is a treadmill of constantly changing xxx (you fill in the 'xxx').



MichaelRed

 

[JoeAtWork]

Give me a .NET project over Access any day.

Joe Schwarz
Custom Software Developer

http://www.plandev.net