Laptop Recommendations 3

[Stella740pl]

Hello everyone!

I need an advice on something I was asked for an advice.

A relative of mine is looking for a laptop.

He already has an older and upgraded once or twice Acer desktop, barely capable of doing what it needs to do. Now he wants a laptop - portable, reasonably powerful for the purpose, and on a budget. I think, eventually that will be his only machine, but for now he keeps the desktop, too.

The person is a retired professional in his area, but not very computer-savvy. The machine is primarily intended for doing some occasional contract/freelancing work requiring engineering technical drawing (like machine and mechanism design, etc.), and also personal photo storage and Internet-browsing/e-mail (generally, no music and movies downloading will be taking place, but rather family pictures exchange).

The software that will be installed to do the work part will be AutoCAD and other 2D and 3D packages (not sure which ones exactly, but know that they require quite some space to install and big enough storage for the files that will be produced). A reasonably large screen is also a requirement for this type of work.

As for the budget, I would say, preferably under $1500 (even better if less than that), but may go up to $2000 or so.

Another note, I don’t build computers, and not planning to, so something off-the-shelf is preferred (at most, a company that makes custom builds will be considered).

The one I am currently looking at is HP HDX16t (see

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2331758,00.asp).

(It comes with Vista Home Premium, which I’ve never used, just as any other Vista, so don’t know about its suitability for the purpose, either.)

I would like an input from the professionals here on this one or suggestions for another one.

Also, can you please explain what the pros and cons of going 64b vs. 32b? Which one would make sense for the purpose?

I would appreciate your comments and suggestions. Thanks.

Stella

 

[Stella740pl]

I was just informed about an additional requirement.
As one of the packages that is supposed to be installed, SolidWorks, doesn't work with Vista (or so their website says), XP preinstalled would be strongly preffered (as opposed to having to buy one separately and install it).

So, I guess, it will rule my initial selection out.

 

[wahnula]

Lenovo has the best machines on the market for price/performance ratio. Let me do some research and post back.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[RICHINMINN]

Vista needs significantly more CPU power, memory, and disk space than XP did, so be sure to get a system with a dual-core 64-bit processor, at least 2 (but preferably 3+) gigabytes of RAM, and a 120-160 gigabyte hard drive.

Another thing to do is to get a copy of PC Decrapifier (

http://www.pcdecrapifier.com)

and use it to remove as much of the added trial software and useless utilities as you can do without (which will probably be most of them). They just take up disk space and lots of memory when the system's running.

A nice system that I just configured for a customer was a Toshiba L355D-S7815, which comes with an AMD dual-core Athlon 64 QL-60 processor with 3 gigabytes of memory, a 160-gigabyte hard drive, a 17" LCD screen, and a DVD+/-RW drive, with Windows Vista Home Premium installed. It ran well with Vista installed, but runs much better with WinXP Pro. (Though I had problems tracking down XP-compatible versions of the drivers that I needed.)

I'm going to get one for my wife now.

Rich in Minn.

 

[IRudebwoy]

If he is going to use Solidworks you really should take look at this. Solidworks will not run properly without a certified graphics card.

Anything else can lead to poor performance.

 

[cdogg]

As one of the packages that is supposed to be installed, SolidWorks, doesn't work with Vista (or so their website says)

Well, according to that link IRudebwoy gave, it appears that Solidworks 2008 and 2009 do work with Vista. Older versions do not.

You'll want the 64-bit version of Vista if you plan on eventually using more than 4GB of memory. For a workstation-class system, this is a smart move. Also, it helps if you are scratching all older 32-bit programs with the intention of starting fresh. As long as you don't heavily rely on an older app, then this is usually the best option.

For sh*ts and giggles, I looked at HP's and Dell's website. I didn't see any workstation-class systems that came with a good enough graphics card for under $2000. The HP EliteBook 8730w caught my eye. But you would need to get the version with the Nvidia Quadro FX 2700M graphics card which runs $2300 starting (and that's with only 2GB of RAM).

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
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[Stella740pl]

IRudebwoy,

Thanks, will keep in mind.


cdogg,

Yes, he has older versions, not 2008 or 2009 for sure. I think, not even 2007. I guess, around 2004. And I don't think he will want to start fresh and invest heavily in that. As a mentioned, he is a retired person, doing an occasional contract/assignment, and that software is expensive - which will make the works not worth it. (I don't think a learning curve with all new software would be a serious issue, though.) So XP is preferred.

As for the higher cost of the machine, not sure, but may consider it.

I will take a look at the EliteBook.

 

[cdogg]

Understood. My next step would be to call the company to see what video card would be compatible with the older Solidworks version. Hopefully, you can get a real basic Quadro or FireGL card and knock the price down to $1700 or so.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
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[Stella740pl]

cdogg,

This EliteBook looks good - even though no ratings/reviews of any kind yet. Maybe we will get it a go. Will try to work with my relative to find the optimum price/performance ratio. At least, it's a start - to know what we are after and what to look for. Thank you.

 

[cdogg]

You're welcome. If you get a chance, please post back later letting us know what you decided to go with and how it worked out for you.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
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[Stella740pl]

Well, nothing so far.

Those EliteBooks have an option of downgrading to XP, but if you look closely into the details, the option is for corporate buyers only.

So faced with an option of buying a copy of Windows XP additionally or going with Vista and having to upgrade all other software, he decided to wait a little and see what happens, while his desktop is still (slowly) doing something, and having a portable machine is not that urgent as of yet, and the new Windows versions are in beta-testing.
He told me to put it on hold for a while. He is looking also into getting a used machine with XP while waiting, and maybe upgrading his software after all at some later time.

 

[normntwrk]

Not sure if their Video cards are compatible with your software requirements but check out Dell's outlet, they have quite a few XPS laptops for $1000 or less with 3-4 Gigs Ram, some with 500 Gig HD , dedicated 128-256 MB video cards and I believe they are all downgradable to XP

I bought a desktop for $239, said it was scratch & dent and I couldn't find a scratch on it

Norm

 

[gbaughma]

I know I'll get in trouble for saying this....

But, my personal rule of thumb is to avoid anything starting with an "A".

Apple.
Aptiva.
AST.
Acer.
(g)Ateway (lol)

Now, in all seriousness, I've have VERY good luck with my HP laptop that I've had for about 5 years now. Before that, I had a Toshiba laptop that I was very happy with.

I have had LOTS of problems with Gateway, AST, and Acer.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[BadBigBen]

Let me throw in my 2cents worth here, in lieu of the Quatro cards...

between mainstream graphic cards and Quatros, there is only the Firmware as a difference these days, have a read about it on:

Tom's Hardware: The Pro Market And Workstation Graphics Technology...




Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.

 

[wahnula]

Stella,

Here's what I know about Lenovo & "downgrading" to XP:

The model my wife bought originally through Newegg ran XP but was DOA due to clever shipping tactics by UPS, or Fedex, or whomever. Anyway, for the RMA, the XP laptop was out of stock and was replaced by the 3000 N-200, which came pre-loaded with Vista Business, the best version of Vista for a work laptop, but, like you, I wanted XP. It was also $59 less, in the $600-700 range.

A phone call to CS later I learned about Lenovo's "downgrade plan", where they ship you a full package of XP Pro recovery CDs, which wipes the boot partition and the restore partition and replaces it w/ XP Pro, for a price...~$50 w/overnight shipping included. So...it was a wash pricewise, but I would much rather have restore media than a restore partition...what if the HDD goes buh-bye?

One easily-fixed problem was that the bloatware was included in the restore media...delete, delete, delete.

And...for future use, there is a legitimate Vista Business license on the bottom of the machine, although no media, but "borrowing" a copy of Vista is a possibility.

She has been quite happy with the machine, and I have been happy too, as there have been no issues requiring Admin attention. So, all-in-all, a GREAT machine for the money. She got the 14" version upon my advice that it would be smaller and lighter than a 15", and nobody has missed the extra inch. This machine is not a high-horsepower model, but it's hard to beat for bang-for-the-buck.

After typing all this, I found this 15.4" 3000N on Newegg with XP pre-loaded for well under $600:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146528

Doh! I would snap it up in a second...both my wife & sister have Lenovo entry-level laptops (Core 2 Duos, 1-2GB RAM) and both have been solid performers, going back at least 18 months. No problems with either.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[paparazi]

I have two comments:
The longer he waits the more difficult it will become to find a laptop that has XP pre-installed or capable of being 'downgraded' due to drivers not being available.
I've de-vistafied a few laptops and I haven't found one yet that couldn't be done, some drivers have proved very difficult to find...that will only get harder as newer chipsets are used that are solus to Vista.
Secondly....and baring in mind the description of your client...I would say that a machine with a so called mainstream gaming card like the 9600M would be fine, it doesn't have to have a workstation class graphics sub-system, they are the ideal but not the exclusive option. Yes sure workstation graphics are faster and more suited but at an extremely inflated price, especially when you consider the core ellements of the GPU are 99% the same as their gaming counterparts.
Martin

On wings like angels whispers sweet
my heart it feels a broken beat
Touched soul and hurt lay wounded deep
Brown eyes are lost afar and sleep

 

[etarhan]

Having started my career as a mainframe computer technician some 35 years ago, I was one of the natural targets for similar questions after PC's became widely available to the general public, and it took me some 10 years afterwards to learn that I should NEVER recommend a computer or any component to anyone except to those who knew what they were talking about - in bits and bytes and bus widths, etc.

Therefore, my advice, although very late, is that you should not recommend anything if you care about your relations with that relative of yours. ;-)

You sound as if you're not very knowledgeable on the subject. Actually you sound as if you're not very knowledgeable on both subjects: a) on the computers, b) on the intended use. So, you're doomed to fail in the end.

CAD type drawing work requires very high resolution LARGE displays (assuming the inevitable weakening of the vision, the age of the user does not help any) which any notebook that I know of can NOT provide. A notebook plus an external monitor would probably exceed the budget, which already is quite at the border. Therefore, what this user needs is a desktop with a big monitor. If he needs portability, he can use almost any notebook to carry his work to wherever he wants, in order to show the results to the customer.

I fail to grasp the importance of this XP/Vista discussion. What is the price of a retail copy of XP? Is this price important inside the total cost of a desktop or a notebook (availability of the XP drivers should be checked carefully)? Additionally, as he seems to be planning to get rid of the old desktop, he can use the XP license of that machine (check if it's permitted). If he buys a desktop with PC-DOS or unix-clones for OS, he will not have paid for the price of a Vista.

The only advice that I would give, if I'm allowed, is that he should ask his fellow colleagues about how they solve this problem, as he certainly is not the only one who has it. This way, he can see the actual, not the expected, results that will (or will not) fit his needs.


Good luck,
Engin

 

[Stella740pl]

I've just noticed I have replies!

Thank you all for the suggestions. They are very valuable indeed.
I will discuss all the options with him and see where it goes.
In any any case, I will not push anything, remembering etarhan's warnings ;-).


wahnula, that link of yours looks interesting. Will consider that.


etarhan,

Therefore, my advice, although very late, is that you should not recommend anything if you care about your relations with that relative of yours.
I know! But that's a risk both ways, whether I do recommend anything or refuse, seriously. That's why I will provide lots of disclaimers (oral, not written), and will add that I consulted with you fuys .

You sound as if you're not very knowledgeable on the subject. Actually you sound as if you're not very knowledgeable on both subjects: a) on the computers, b) on the intended use.
You are right. I am a database programmer/data analyst. But unfortunately, I am designated as "the computer person of the family" (I didn't ask for it), so I have to occasionally debug over the telephone a Windows issue like "where did my files go" or "it doesn't boot", replace a hard drive sent under warranty, install Windows, bring a trashed computer back to life, set up a home network, or set up a direct cable connection to get lots of data from Win98 laptop which has no CD/DVD burner, no USB port, dead floppy drive, slow dial up Internet connection and was not recognized by a DSL hub/modem.

I recently failed to convince my husband that I don't know how to install a second hard drive from one Win95 dinosaur to another, as one was (finally!) going to be dumped, and the other was staying for a while for the kids (it has some good games installed), and that I know on the issue just as much as he does. Well, I found some instructions on the Internet, I tried, I failed (the computer works as it was, but the second hard drive doesn't), I left it in for now, and he got off my back for now.

 

[BadBigBen]

Well, I found some instructions on the Internet, I tried, I failed (the computer works as it was, but the second hard drive doesn't)

probably jumpering... Master (boot) and Slave (second HDD)...

Well, I found some instructions on the Internet,

could not have been from TT... it would have worked then... Stella you could have just asked US... ;-)

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.

 

[cdogg]

CAD type drawing work requires very high resolution LARGE displays (assuming the inevitable weakening of the vision, the age of the user does not help any) which any notebook that I know of can NOT provide.

etarhan,
It seems you are bracing Stella for disappointment. I just don't know why! The situation does not call for a high-end CAD system as noted by the comments "reasonably powerful for the purpose" and "occasional contract/freelancing work". Desktops offer top-of-the-line components and increased longevity through upgrades, but if you're not buying high-end to begin with the point is moot.

Then there's the software requirements. AutoCAD, for example, recommends 1024x768 for 2D and 1280x1024 for 3D modeling. Most laptops today easily cover that with native resolutions that are often much higher. The display on the 8730w laptop I recommended above has a native resolution of 1920x1200 as just one example. With a decent workstation-level graphics card and at least 2GB of memory it's not too hard to satisfy the recommended requirements. The only real challenge is finding the best bang for the buck. If your other concern is the "size" of the display, an external one could always be added later if needed. I'm willing to bet that mobility is more important here, and that the user probably already has a decent monitor from the old CAD desktop.

I understand the caution and where you're coming from based on past experience, but it might be a bit overboard in this case...


~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
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