Language 4

[Dimandja]

<aside>
Does anyone know the best way to search for items using the tek-tips search facility?
</aside>

 

[PaulTEG]

patience ;-)

cigless ...

 

[AnotherHiggins]

&lt;aside&gt;
Does anyone know the best way to search for items using the tek-tips search facility?
&lt;/aside&gt;

Wait for a new search engine to be implemented by Site Management?

Seriously, though, try going to google and searching for [COLOR=blue white]site:

http://www.tek-tips.com

&quot;search terms&quot;[/color]
or
[COLOR=blue white]site:

http://www.tek-tips.com

&quot;forum Name&quot; &quot;search terms&quot;[/color]

For example, searching for
[COLOR=blue white]site:

http://www.tek-tips.com

&quot;Making an Impression&quot; single language[/color]
returns these results. Not perfect, but pretty good, anyway.

(BTW, I got this idea from ca8msm)

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue]
[/tt][red]&quot;I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.&quot;[/red]
-Mitch Hedberg

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[SteveGlo]

When I said

Personally I think necessity is the best spur to learning a language which is why most "first language is English" speakers don't bother.

I simply meant that one may find that the greatest incentive to learning a language is the necessity to do so. Obviously for most people this means initially learning the language of their primary carers i.e. parents.

So primarily I implied that we are looking for the reason why people learn a second language. The reasons for doing so are numerous: economic, social, curiosity, statutory, etc - and I collated these into the expression 'necessity'.

It then appeared to me that most people who have English as their first language do not perceive that there is a necessity to learn a foreign language simply because they know that English is widely spoken throughout the world.

I never intended anyone to take what I said as implying that I thought that English was necessarily superior to any other language. I intended even less to imply that the English 'culture' that goes with the language is 'superior' to any other culture.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Steve,

I don't sense that anyone misunderstood or misinterpreted your notions or motives. We who are "knocking" English (language and culture) are doing so for the very reasons you mention: "English" is certainly not a superior language and "English culture" certainly cannot presume superiority over other cultures either.

My two assertions, above, are precisely why the de facto "selection" of English as the "universal language" is so ironic and rather dubious, IMHO.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[UniqueFD]

Dave, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Steve - you were spot on (both times!) - "Necessity is the mother of all inventions and the best incentive for learning languages", as the saying goes (doesn't it?)

I learned to speak German living in Germany (9 years, over two stretches until I was 14) and picked up a lovely native German accent, but haven't used it for the last 20 years or so. To my shame, when I now try to speak it, through neglect I find my tongue feels thick and, whilst I can hear the sounds I want to make in my head, what comes out of my mouth is a stilted version. I should make the effort to re-learn and practice, but to what end? Where is the incentive? Other things take priority. Now if I needed it for my work, in my marriage, down the pub...

Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)

 

[SteveGlo]

Dave

I guess one needs to see the body language, hear the tones and smell the pheromones to better understand the points people try to make.



I was recently amused by an assertion that was made in the third of the 'Science of DiscWorld' books - human language emerged from the need that our pre-human ancestors had to scream abuse at the 'monkeys' in the next tree.

Steve

 

[Dimandja]

>I was recently amused by an assertion that was made in the third of the 'Science of DiscWorld' books - human language emerged from the need that our pre-human ancestors had to scream abuse at the 'monkeys' in the next tree.

There is a lot plausible truth to that. When I learned English, I had the tremendous need to master the swear phrases first. It was necessary.

The next set of vocabulary that people need from a new language is, of course, anything to do with mating calls. Unless you happen to already be hitched; in which case you'll simply hedge your bets and learn them anyway. Just in case.


<Where is that coffee?>

 

[CajunCenturion]

I was recently amused by an assertion that was made in the third of the 'Science of DiscWorld' books - human language emerged from the need that our pre-human ancestors had to scream abuse at the 'monkeys' in the next tree.

That's too funny.


Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[PaulTEG]

It's a very good series, the SOD, can require thinking about things in a slightly different way

Still halfway through books I & II, I better finish these before III ;-)
--Paul


cigless ...

 

[Thadeus]

I find it interesting though that this thread has slipped, on occasion, into a view of "arrogant" Americans who somehow believe their language is superior, don't get why people from other countries don't speak English, etc.

What I heard Steve say was that people learn language according to necessity. And many of you have noted that you learned another language when you were immersed in that country or culture, necessitating your learning process.

I don't know any other language, but I don't have an arrogance about it... I've just never had the necessity.

I will say that I tried dating a deaf woman when I was in college. By the following semester I was enrolled in an ASL class. The romance fizzled along the way though and I never really learned much without the immediate contact with the language.

~Thadeus

 

[sha76]

Oh, it's not just Americans who are arrogant about it, did you not know the traditional English method of communication is to speak louder & slower until we're understood?

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[Dimandja]

>I find it interesting though that this thread has slipped, on occasion, into a view of "arrogant" Americans who somehow believe their language is superior, don't get why people from other countries don't speak English, etc.

Yeah. I don't know where that came from. Sometimes we read more than what was written. This habit is appearing quite regularly now. I suggest we stick to what the post says, and ask the poster questions if we smell something in the post. Drawing hasty conclusions is bad and inflammatory.


<Trying out a sig>
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!

 

[PaulTEG]

Yeah. I don't know where that came from. Sometimes we read more than what was written

I've a feeling that context is lacking in these situations, be it from not enough information being posted, or the assumption on the part of the poster that the omissions made are implied. This can be a problem in any communication, but in the spoken word we have additional non verbal communication cues which assist in the comprehension of the post/statement.
It could be that in the lack of these additional cues, and the fact that speed of the responses are not indicative of normal written communiques, we try to fill in blanks, ... and miss

IMO, we just need to remember that its a different medium.

Oh and remember, when you see a happy medium, dig 'im in the beak

--Paul

 

[Stella740pl]

did you not know the traditional English method of communication is to speak louder & slower until we're understood?
Oh yes, I am familiar with this method very well; some people start using it the moment they hear an accent, just to make sure they would be understood.

 

[SantaMufasa]

I was recently amused by an assertion that was made in the third of the 'Science of DiscWorld' books - human language emerged from the need that our pre-human ancestors had to scream abuse at the 'monkeys' in the next tree.

I would give anything to have a video tape of that first ancestor screaming English to that monkey in the next tree:

Pahdon me primate, but would you be so kind as to pahss the tea pot? And while doing so, please pahss a spot of cream and a dash of shugah, please.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.