Keep losing internet connection - have to reboot router/modem 2

[chapelhillbilly]

Hey everyone!

First off, I'm in the US (Durham, NC area). We have home wireless network, (3 laptops on wireless and one desktop). We have Time Warner Road Runner using their Motorolla Surfboard modem. That is plugged into the uplink of our linksys wireless router.

I posted this in the internet forum as well but figured I'd post it here as well since it does pertain to hardware! Arghhh! Never ending...

What happens is that intermittently, we just completely loose our internet connections, even on the desktop that is hardwired into the router. I tried calling the cable co. and of course, the minute they hear I'm using "my own" router, they tell me it's the router.

I've tried two different Linksys routers and this STILL happens. What are the chances that it's the router? A friend told me that the cable company could be scanning for non-TW routers and "flashing" their connections to make them buy TW routers.

Anyways, ANY info is greatly appreciated!
Don

 

[xwb]

Don't know about the US but in the UK, trees are often the problem. Is your telephone line from a pole or an underground cable? If it is from a pole, does the wire pass through a tree? If it does, the cable is probably worn out.

In the UK, they normally replace the cable. It will work for about 5 or 6 years and the same thing will happen again. No idea if it is the same in the US.

 

[wolluf]

Question. Have you tried running with just the modem connected directly to the PC? If you've tried 2 routers, its unlikley to be the router (though it is a reasonably common router fault - I've come across 5 or 6 which do just keep dropping connection) - but from your description you haven't actually eliminated the modem as possible cause. Also if the direct connection keeps dropping - you can lay the blame at your supplier's door.

I'm in UK too - so no idea if US cable companies might try that scam - but it sounds unlikely (why upset your own customers - just get more support calls, which internet companies definitely don't like too many of!)

 

[dglienna]

Make sure the router keeps the connection alive forever (usuallly 0). I agree that you should plug in directly and play some videos at youtube or something.

Then, you have a leg to stand on with the ISP.

-David
2006 & 2007 Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP)
2006 Dell Certified System Professional (CSP)

 

[wahnula]

I agree that you should plug in directly

Same here BUT ONLY BRIEFLY TO TEST. Sorry to shout but raw cable Internet is a sewer of port scans, trojans and worms (oh my!). I would not 'go commando' for more than a few minutes at a time and be sure your Windows firewall is ON.

A friend told me that the cable company could be scanning for non-TW routers and "flashing" their connections to make them buy TW routers.

Poppycock. Many businesses use TW RR (like mine) and home routers are commonplace, that conspiracy theory does not float. That's a holdover from the illegal cable box days. **nostalgic sigh**

Tony

 

[macten88]

I've got Time Warner Cable here in Ohio and have been having trouble lately. Bypassing the router to two different pc's didn't help. So the problem is between my modem and their equipment.

Right now it's working fine but over the last few weeks it was intermittent. If it goes out again, I'm going to replace the splitter on the outside wall.

 

[Lemon13]

meanwhile i had 6 Motorolla Surfboard modems from different customers wich showed that behaviour, by replacing the modem everything was fine. i checked one, and the soldering on the lan (out) connector was poorly done, i fixed that and the modem is running fine since then.
i also had some issus with signal quality and Motorolla Surfboard, let them check ur line.

 

[Dillinger99]

Like macten88, I've been having problems with my Ohio Time Warner Cable as well. I have to reboot my TW modem at least once a day. Some of my customers at work are having the same issue as well.

 

[gbaughma]

It's your router.

Linksys routers can't handle more than 255 consecutive connections.

This can happen if you're doing BitTorrents/LimeWire/Kazaa/etc. and you have too many connections going.



Just my 2¢
-There once was a man from Peru
Who wanted to write a Haiku
but...

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[cdogg]

Greg,
Do you mean 255 "concurrent" connections?

And could you elaborate more on what you mean? How does this compare to other routers from D-Link, Netgear, etc.? Does this affect all Linksys models?

I've never heard of that before and must say that I'm somewhat skeptical of that claim.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[macten88]

Dillinger99....I'm somewhat East of Cleveland. I know that Time Warner did a migration recently and that accounted for some of the down time. But it's more than that. My problems seemed to start when the really cold artic air moved in and just got worse.

Here's the strange part: I've got a cable coming into the back of the house and one coming into the front part of the house. So there is a splitter involved. After rebooting everything numerous times, I would move the modem to the other cable and it would work fine for a day or two and then not work. I would then move it back to the other cable and it would work again for awhile and then stop working.

I'm really starting to suspect that moisture has worked it's way into the splitter that is outside. But that's probably only part of the problem. The last time I called their tech support, I got some black lady who sounded like she had no training at all.

Right now it's working fine again. But I wonder for how long?

 

[gbaughma]

Sorry. Yes. Concurrent.

I read it somewhere... actually, I think I read it here... and I've heard it mentioned before. I'll see if I can find the thread.



Just my 2¢
-There once was a man from Peru
Who wanted to write a Haiku
but...

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[gbaughma]

Ahhh... here it is... in thread602-1336095

most of those issues stems from if one computer has their internet tweaked and they communicate with the router and ask for more then 255 internal connections the router locks up.

That's where I read it. And I was talking with a guy at best buy, who also had heard the same thing.

That's why I just put in a dlink at a hotel, when I really wanted to put in a Linksys.

So far, the dlink hasn't pooped itself at all.



Just my 2¢
-There once was a man from Peru
Who wanted to write a Haiku
but...

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[wahnula]

Hello, latest victim here. Not a Linksys, but an SMC WBRG2804 or something like that. I connected my company VPN and all went well for a few moments until I tried downloading a large file...froze the router and dropped all the connections.

Replaced with a D-Link 804HOV (or something like that, just lying around you know) and it is now fine. Slow, but fine. I have read about packet-prioritization routers that are meant for MMOG gaming, maybe you should look into one of those.

Tony

 

[cdogg]

Greg,
I understand your concern, but I'd need more than hearsay to believe it.

Searching online, I couldn't find anything worthwhile regarding the limit of 255. I did, however, find that some router specs listed the total number of "concurrent users" at 253. But this spec is referring to the total number of DHCP assignments, meaning you could hook up switches/hubs to the router's 4 ethernet ports and connect up to 253 computers. Also it's important to note that I found this spec listed for many different brands like Netgear, Belkin, and Linksys. This spec has nothing to do with the way applications access the router.

The operating system manages multiple streams within an application, not the router. When I open my browser for example (let's say I'm using Firefox), it might have the OS manage 2 or 3 connections simultaneously. But these connections are all passing through port 80 on the router in queue fashion. The OS treats them as multiple threads, but the router doesn't see it as being more than one.

I think the whole concept got twisted around and lost in translation at some point. I would caution against defaming a company or product based on something you've heard as opposed to something you know. At the very least, you should be clear about it being a claim rather than stating it as fact.

Just my 2¢

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[gbaughma]

cdogg:

Yes... concurrent users at 253, because of the Class-C addressing.

However, I do know that I've had multiple Linksys routers that will lock up and require a reboot. *especially* under heavy traffic loads (like when my bro-in-law fires up torrents), so that fell in line with what I had heard about the multiple connections problems with the linksys.

That's why I just put in a dlink router at a hotel, instead of the linksys.



Just my 2¢
-There once was a man from Peru
Who wanted to write a Haiku
but...

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[cdogg]

Greg,
Linksys is owned by Cisco. I find it hard to believe that it falls behind other brands because of an undocumented "glitch" that apparently affects ALL models. I would imagine that such a reputable leader in this area of the market would have solved such a problem if it really existed. I have owned several and supported a handful of models from Linksys and never had that problem.

I guess just like everything else, you're going to find unhappy customers that try to pin bad experiences to the brand rather than to the particular model involved without considering other factors.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[firewolfrl]

cdogg,
LOL.... Now I have lots of experience with Linksys and their costumer support... The techs are nice enough but have canned responses...LOL....I was able to talk to the Design staff and they do understand the issues with their routers and the 255 limitations...But..Politics are everywhere.
The initial design of the routers are basic and they for the most part work as designed....Politics and a large company cutting costs.
cheap electronics that were substituted that do not work as the originally specked electronics. this was not just a cost issue but a company that agreed to use another companies material through politics that did not involve the original design techs or their input. this is done all over the electronic industry.

Quantity and volume sales with a great marketing team make a Linksys router...from Walmart to Staples you can find that they have the lead and strangle hold of the router market
But, the routers do have flaws in them that are not design flaws .... most of the routers are pretty much close to the same type of design. quality versus cost of manufacturing???

I have used Linksys in the past and I will tell my costumers they get what they pay for.


If you want a router that can take the 255 limitation and not crash you have to pay for it...These routers are usually geared toward the gaming community

D-Link gamers router works well(no crash in 2 years), The Upper end Linksys work OK. There are so many brands out there. the only sure thing is if you stay away from the cheap routers you have less router crash issues


on the side note the modems that are used by some of the High speed internet companies are not all that great


chapelhillbilly, The chances that 2 Linksys routers crash are high...you need to see what is putting a load on your router..... Mine was Teenagers (SMACK MY HEAD!)

The higher end D-links are the ones that I have found that have the least issue of crashing


I have experience with routers on a level that most users don't see....I set up a 10 block radius wireless network with a secondary Hotspot pay system. This is in a small fishing community with lots of business types that like to fish and need internet. Most of the charters share info with each other and their charter boats. The Hotspot generates the cash to keep the system going. in the busy tourist season there may be upwards of over 300+ computers tied into the system (at the same time) ...from pleasure boats to charter yachts to just the average laptop user in one of the coffee houses....D-link made the antenna and router custom for this system as a Beta system to advertise later on to the corporate market...not due out till 2008 (and yes I will receive royalties due to it being partially my design)

I chose D-link over the Linksys due to the inability of the Linksys Design team to meet the deadline I had. I had 27 different bids.....boy am I glad that project is done

 

[gbaughma]

I was able to talk to the Design staff and they do understand the issues with their routers and the 255 limitations

cdogg:

I guess that's just hearsay, too... talking to the design team. ;-)



Just my 2¢
-There once was a man from Peru
Who wanted to write a Haiku
but...

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[cdogg]

firewolfrl,
No doubt your experience is more extensive than mine in this area! It's just that I've done a lot of home setups using Linksys routers with 3 or more PC's connected, and I've never witnessed a problem like the one described here.

Also, I think it's important that you noted some Linksys models do well. This goes to show that the "entire" brand isn't something to steer away from - just certain "low end" models. That was the original reason why I spoke out against the criticism in the first place.

I applaud their efforts to use Linux-based firmware, and in some models, implementing VxWorks and some higher-end features. They are also starting to include faster processors making it easier to manage larger loads.

Hopefully they'll learn from the mistakes...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884