Just tell 'm it's not possible? 1

[machteld]

Hi all,
Today we found out that to 'keep a promise' a lot of work should be done (we overlooked some 'minor details', ahum..) One of the suggestions was 'Cant't we just say it is not possible?'

My answer was that it would
1. be lying
2. never stand, customers are not as dumb as you think, so they will know eventually..
3. Better to convince them that all the work that had to be done, would not be worth it, looking at the small result it would give.

And someone gave me this look as if I was a complete fool!
Then again, he is not the one exaplaning to the customer...

Was wondering, how often do you say things are not possible, while you know they are, you just don't want to do it, or don't want to add up time+money+resources and all the talking needed to be done, just to show it is not worth the while??

Am curious, let me know, please!

 

[muddyjohn]

I have found myself in a position like that. We needed to buy software for customer and boss had us download a trail ver. rather than buy the real thing. After 30 days it stoppped working and customer never noticed. We still have not bought it and was told "Don't tell the customer"

 

[sleipnir214]

To speak in general, Arthur C. Clark's First Law of Technology states, "When an engineer states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Lying to a customer by saying something is impossible will nearly always bite you on the butt. All that has to happen is your client broaches the subject of the impossibility with one of my clients on the golf course and then find out my company can do it. Then my company is plus one customer who thinks we're geniuses and you are minus one customer who thinks y'all're idiots.


To speak to this case in generalities, lying to a customer to try to weasel out of a promise to them is unethical.


To speak to this case in specifics, doesn't your company have a contract with the client, either oral or written? That lie could be illegal.


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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[machteld]

Well, my company *is* the client! But yes, I do feel it's unethical, and to be honest, lazy and unprofessional.

but I was completely stunned for a moment by that suggestion and that look that said 'Don't you know how it's done?'

 

[sleipnir214]

My client-to-client golf course scenario still applies. Only think "IT outsourcing".


I would, by the way, not let the one who suggested the lie have the ability to reach your back too often. If he's lying to muckymucks, he'll put a blade in your back, too.

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[machteld]

Thanks, I know what you mean. Worse; he is hired, I am not. But he is (was?) good and so his response completely confused me! But getting the picture now, I was not wrong here;-) Will take me some time to explain and put things in 'customer-language' for them to understand, but eventually i think it will pay off...and it will be the only right thing to do. Thanks again!

 

[machteld]

And again, this is another subject/thread maybe... I I would rather tell them where we went wrong and look them in the eyes afterwards, then lie to them and they will not take me serious ever again. Maybe this is more a personal thing, but still...

I rather be imberassed by telling we underestimated the whole situation, than being emberrased by caught to tell a lie, and never be able to face them frankly again.

(am dutch here, so if my english is wrong or weird, please understand)

 

[rosieb]

As a customer, my question would be WHY?, I'd then go off and research it, and - if I found an a solution, raise it again at the next meeting. Result - programmer looks incompetent...

Done it, didn't happen again... (But,I gather, bums were kicked.) If you're caught, plays hell with customer confidence. Unlesss your're SURE you're dealing with idiots, don't do it!!!! (Even then, it's not ethical. And, as said, eventually it'll probably come back to haunt you.)

 

[sleipnir214]

<sarcasm>
And even if you know your custmers are idiots, you still can't use the word &quot;impossible&quot;. Too many syllables.
</sarcasm>

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[CajunCenturion]

In answer to your question, there are almost no situations where something is not possible. Given sufficient time and resources, you can do almost anything. You have almost nothing to gain by being dishonest to cover up laziness and/or imcompetance. The next guy that comes along will blow your cover sky high. And I agree completely that any such deception as proposed is totally unethical.

But that does not mean that it is reasonable to do, nor that it is worth doing. Put the pencil to the numbers and show in pure business terms the expected ROI of performing the work and let the decision makes do their job.

If you're well into the project, then you might want to produce a project status report. In this report, indicate where you are, identify what needs to be done, and the time and costs associated with each item on the task list. On those items that were not properly assessed to being with, I would try to identify why a proper assessment did not take place, or identify those factors which led to the incorrect assessment. Then run it up the line and let the decision makers know where things really are, so that they can make intelligent business decisions on how to proceeed. Further, having a written project status report provides you with sufficient documentation to support your position.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[rosieb]

A saucer of milk for the cat

 

[machteld]

I don't think customers are idiots at all, exactly the reason why I said no to the whole idea! I think that is a way of thinking not done any more, now!

Getting late here now, so no repsonse from my part here for a while, not that I don' want to, but we have a little time difference here... if you know what I mean. Thanks for all the thoughts so far! Keep it coming!

 

[rosieb]

In all seriousness, customers generally DO respect the truth, even if it's not palatable. &quot;We screw'd up, we'll fix it, but it's going to take time.&quot; is generally acceptable, if you're dealing with reasonable people.

The key is developing trust, if you get caught out telling lies, they'll never believe you in future, even if you ARE telling the truth.

Go with your instincts.

Good luck

Rosie

 

[MasterRacker]

Try to stay away from the word &quot;possible&quot; as much as you can. As Cajun said, almost anything is possible and if someone has it in their head that they want it, it's sometimes very difficult to later explain why it's not a good idea when earlier you told them it's &quot;possible&quot;....

Believe me, I've been kicked for this more tha once:

[red]Me:[/red] &quot;It's not possible to do that anywhere close to the budget you have.&quot;

[red]A couple of retellings later:[/red] &quot;Why did you tell them that was impossible? People do that all the time. You're being obstructionist and not meeting customer expectations...&quot;

[red]Me:][/red] &quot;I didn't say it was impossible.....&quot;


Be careful what you tell people because they do have selective hearing and unless you have recordings it can come back to hut you.



Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[machteld]

Thanks for all the reactions!

CajunCenturion: You're completely right. Problem is I am not the projectleader, he's on a holiday. I always take over when he does (and thing always go wrong the moment he leaves the building;-). Mgmt asked for a quick solution on the problem, so we thouht of a quick workaround (implemented already) to have all the time to work on the eventual solution. That this one turnes out to be more work then we thought when we said we would do it, is a bit dissapointing, but no reason to lie about.

So I just tell the truth, and see how things go. Is the only right thing to do.

The guy who suggested it worries me most, he's in some other major projects.. and I start wondering in wich cases he has (had) simulour thoughts and talks. Could really hurt our image... Well, not when I'm around, that's for sure now, hahaha!

Thanx again!

 

[pmonett]

In my eight years of consultancy, I have found that, by and large, the customer prefers knowing the truth and will not believe spin or lies.
If you are late on the project, say so. State why, and more importantly, state what efforts you will employ to correct the situation.
A good manager knows that nobody is perfect, nobody is omniscient. He will judge you more by the quality of your conduct than by a simple delay - which he should have planned for in the beginning.
By showing that you can analyse your faults correctly and implement the necessary procedures to regain the initial goal, you will show more professionalism than a guy who waltzes through meetings with his sunglasses on, spewing &quot;no problem, we're on track&quot; phrases all over everyone, then hustles back to the lab and starts whipping up extras behind locked doors.
You get my drift.

Pascal.

 

[machteld]

Haha, I get your drift, and I love the way you say it!! ;-)