Hello everyone !! First time here !! I currently have Linux certification from Sair Linux, also have CCNA certification from Cisco. Now what i was planning to do was Unix, Sun Solaris 8 !! I don't have that much experience, but definitely have certifications. Wanted some valuable advice from all you pros. How is the market for Unix esp. with my background or in general. Is it wise to do this or else ?? Please reply, I would really appreciate help/advice/tips...thanx
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations SkipVought on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Job Market for Unix Admin. Solaris 8 5
- Thread starter Novice11
- Start date
Whew, you guys make me tied just from reading all the bantering about certifications vs. experience. All he wanted to know was how was the market for someone with his experience. He had to tell us about his certifications and his experience if we were to answer his question. I thought he asked if very humbly.
Anyway if we are going to help each other we need to keep our replies focused on the subject and what they are asking.
I guess by now Novice11 can answer his own question. -Bobby
bwgunn@earthlink.net
Anyway if we are going to help each other we need to keep our replies focused on the subject and what they are asking.
I guess by now Novice11 can answer his own question. -Bobby
bwgunn@earthlink.net
He did tell us about his certifications and experience :
"I don't have that much experience, but definitely have certifications."
He did ask it very nicely, and we answered truthfully. The market is very hard, there are more graduates out of work now then there ever were. In this market you don't look for certification first, you look for experience. that is the cut and thrust.
Sorry if it sounded as if we were mean, but I felt that it would be better to tell him straight.
"I don't have that much experience, but definitely have certifications."
He did ask it very nicely, and we answered truthfully. The market is very hard, there are more graduates out of work now then there ever were. In this market you don't look for certification first, you look for experience. that is the cut and thrust.
Sorry if it sounded as if we were mean, but I felt that it would be better to tell him straight.
Hey Jad,
Just so you know, I agree with you. It was just tiring to wad through what seemed like tit for tat arguments repeated over and over. And I know it’s necessary to correct wrong statements when they are made. Yes, I know most of it was coming from the newbie’s. No one said a cert. was a waste of paper. They do need to learn to listen before they start arguing. But I guess experience will teach most of them that. And yes, Novice11 does need to get practical experience. Your example with the drilling machines shows why.
Your posts, and like some of the other ones above, were direct and to the point. That directness was what I was calling for and not so much the bantering that sounds like hurt feelings and competition. I guess it all falls on the learning curve. -Bobby
bwgunn@earthlink.net
Just so you know, I agree with you. It was just tiring to wad through what seemed like tit for tat arguments repeated over and over. And I know it’s necessary to correct wrong statements when they are made. Yes, I know most of it was coming from the newbie’s. No one said a cert. was a waste of paper. They do need to learn to listen before they start arguing. But I guess experience will teach most of them that. And yes, Novice11 does need to get practical experience. Your example with the drilling machines shows why.
Your posts, and like some of the other ones above, were direct and to the point. That directness was what I was calling for and not so much the bantering that sounds like hurt feelings and competition. I guess it all falls on the learning curve. -Bobby
bwgunn@earthlink.net
No-one was born a Unix Guru, everyone has to start somewhere. Just do it.... --
| Mike Nixon
| Unix Admin
| ----------------------------
| Mike Nixon
| Unix Admin
| ----------------------------
however unix guru's don't usually get certifications and then claim to be worth as much as someone with hands on experience.
if you're trying to use certification as a way to get a higher salary, rather than increase your spread of knowledge in a field, which you are working in (which you obviously hope will get you a higher salary, then you're doing it wrong is all i can say.
:-> live happy, if it works for you then it doesn't prove i'm wrong, just proves that you're right
if you're trying to use certification as a way to get a higher salary, rather than increase your spread of knowledge in a field, which you are working in (which you obviously hope will get you a higher salary
, then you're doing it wrong is all i can say.:-> live happy, if it works for you then it doesn't prove i'm wrong, just proves that you're right
I have a question,
If you don't take certifications, but you want to get into UNIX then what would be the best way to get into it? I have been dabbling with Linux for a few years now and consider myself of intermediate knowledge and ability, but with Solaris or any other commercial UNIX I have little to no experience. If I wanted to get into UNIX administration then how would I get a job doing such if I don't have any professional experience? I just play with the stuff because I have a Sun Blade 1000 sitting in my office collecting dust.
Currently I'm a windows administrator and I have focused on mostly windows servers, and I have tried to keep up with the UNIX world and work with it more, but I'm not in charge of any UNIX servers. What is the best way to get started? How do I get the years and years of experience if no one is willing to take a chance on me and allow me to learn the UNIX world as well as the UNIX admins in my organization do?
How did you start out? Obviously you didn't know anything before you started working with UNIX. Were you just thrown into a position and told to start using UNIX?
I'm confused about how to go about this if nobody is willing to take a chance on an emerging UNIX administrator. My first thoughts were to get the Solaris Admin certification, but since you guys are saying that hiring managers don't hire on certifications with a small amount of experience then it's pretty much a waste of my time.
I'm only 24 years old and I have been working with windows/dos since I have been interested in computers aside from a little Linux here and there. Any tips on how I would go about this would be great.
Thanks,
James Rogers
jrogers@nd.edu
If you don't take certifications, but you want to get into UNIX then what would be the best way to get into it? I have been dabbling with Linux for a few years now and consider myself of intermediate knowledge and ability, but with Solaris or any other commercial UNIX I have little to no experience. If I wanted to get into UNIX administration then how would I get a job doing such if I don't have any professional experience? I just play with the stuff because I have a Sun Blade 1000 sitting in my office collecting dust.
Currently I'm a windows administrator and I have focused on mostly windows servers, and I have tried to keep up with the UNIX world and work with it more, but I'm not in charge of any UNIX servers. What is the best way to get started? How do I get the years and years of experience if no one is willing to take a chance on me and allow me to learn the UNIX world as well as the UNIX admins in my organization do?
How did you start out? Obviously you didn't know anything before you started working with UNIX. Were you just thrown into a position and told to start using UNIX?
I'm confused about how to go about this if nobody is willing to take a chance on an emerging UNIX administrator. My first thoughts were to get the Solaris Admin certification, but since you guys are saying that hiring managers don't hire on certifications with a small amount of experience then it's pretty much a waste of my time.
I'm only 24 years old and I have been working with windows/dos since I have been interested in computers aside from a little Linux here and there. Any tips on how I would go about this would be great.
Thanks,
James Rogers
jrogers@nd.edu
ok ...
i started on this line by working in a small company (same one i'm in now actually ... maybe it's time to move on ..., anyways ...
i went to college and worked on VAX VMS terminals as a programmer, i played a little with Solaris, but it was litterally only played with, and only from an end-user perspective. I also knew about PC's.
1st off, i knew the systems that i had played with very well, at least to my capacity. I knew well the user end of VMS, the editors, the scripting, the general command set.
My programming skills were good, probably the best ADA programmer there at the time, and we had been given a course in c++, but to be perfectly honest it was really 'retraining ADA in C++' ... but as i said my ADA skills were high.
I was lucky, i went for an interview, i had programming experience (summer job that went on to be a year out), and met an interviewer that was of a similar nature to me ... they had VMS machines on site, used Unix boxes for programming, and had a fair number of MS machines.
he had had a bad week, the agency had sent a lots of useless people to see him, he was over-worked, on a deadline, and they had sent him another candidate to interview ...
the big difference was that when i said i knew something i knew it, i didn't say i knew 'how to program a super computer' then turn out to have worked on a unix machine at college, typing in exactly what someone else had told me.
when i said i'd programmed on VAX VMS, i had, when i said that i didn't know Databasing hands on, but i'd studied it at college, i was telling the truth.
yes they offered me lower than i wanted, yes they put in a clause to improve it if i passed my 'trial' period, yes i've been here 4 years ... yes my salary has improved significantly (especially when i had a kid, and they realised that i needed the money or would walk. but at the time i was out of work, just got married, and running out of funds quickly
since i've been here, i have become the first port of call for problems, yes that has it's downsides, but it has made me _INDISPENSIBLE_
my knowledge of the systems is now greater than my bosses in lots of areas, and i've been moving our system administration slowly into those areas
4 years system admin is not much, but i did a lot of work in learning the environments before i went into it. not the general admin, just the look and feel.
it worked for me.
on the other hand i know people that have gone into interviews with big companies, lied about what they know, and got much better jobs than me, knowing that there is always a 'break-in' period for any new job, in which they can learn what it was they were employed for
Jon
i started on this line by working in a small company (same one i'm in now actually ... maybe it's time to move on ...
, anyways ...i went to college and worked on VAX VMS terminals as a programmer, i played a little with Solaris, but it was litterally only played with, and only from an end-user perspective. I also knew about PC's.
1st off, i knew the systems that i had played with very well, at least to my capacity. I knew well the user end of VMS, the editors, the scripting, the general command set.
My programming skills were good, probably the best ADA programmer there at the time, and we had been given a course in c++, but to be perfectly honest it was really 'retraining ADA in C++' ... but as i said my ADA skills were high.
I was lucky, i went for an interview, i had programming experience (summer job that went on to be a year out), and met an interviewer that was of a similar nature to me ... they had VMS machines on site, used Unix boxes for programming, and had a fair number of MS machines.
he had had a bad week, the agency had sent a lots of useless people to see him, he was over-worked, on a deadline, and they had sent him another candidate to interview ...
the big difference was that when i said i knew something i knew it, i didn't say i knew 'how to program a super computer' then turn out to have worked on a unix machine at college, typing in exactly what someone else had told me.
when i said i'd programmed on VAX VMS, i had, when i said that i didn't know Databasing hands on, but i'd studied it at college, i was telling the truth.
yes they offered me lower than i wanted, yes they put in a clause to improve it if i passed my 'trial' period, yes i've been here 4 years ... yes my salary has improved significantly (especially when i had a kid, and they realised that i needed the money or would walk
. but at the time i was out of work, just got married, and running out of funds quickly since i've been here, i have become the first port of call for problems, yes that has it's downsides, but it has made me _INDISPENSIBLE_
my knowledge of the systems is now greater than my bosses in lots of areas, and i've been moving our system administration slowly into those areas
4 years system admin is not much, but i did a lot of work in learning the environments before i went into it. not the general admin, just the look and feel.
it worked for me.
on the other hand i know people that have gone into interviews with big companies, lied about what they know, and got much better jobs than me, knowing that there is always a 'break-in' period for any new job, in which they can learn what it was they were employed for
Jon
I find it amazing that UNIX is constantly changing and it appears the market grows when a new twist to the Operating System appears. The best thing UNIX has going for it is really the MAN Pages which everyone can reference and even Solaris allows these references. There are some really good features in Solaris I particularly like with regards to the ability to go back and forth to the WWW.
lindaw1
lindaw1
algernonsidney
MIS
Based on my job hunting experience, an MCSE is worthless. I don't want to say for the other certifications. I didn't think the MCSE was going to be worthless when I got it. I wouldn't have pursued it if I had known it was going to be worthless.
Chris
Chris
WouldBeAdmin
Programmer
I have a question, I am planning to Solaris 9.0 UNIX Admin. Does this exam expects user to have any practical experience or only Theoretical knowledge
-
1
- #34
AfghanEngineer
Technical User
Afghanistan is concidered a 4th world country by the US congress. In the early 80's when people here were just learning TCP/IP and emailing, people in Afghanistan still used pigeons to communicate. Those people that knew how to send messages through pigeons were concidered skilled. Those people did not have any degrees, but what they did have was knowledge and the expertise in a particular field (certs).
Other people in Afghanistan were people who knew how to hammer boards together and build roofs (Architects).
Some knew a little about herbal medicine and knew how to remedy simple illnesses. (Doctors)
While there were the elite few who could build bridges that could support the weight of livestock. They were known as "Engineers".
There was no electricity, meaning no electicians and no pc's.
Iam not saying that education is not a good thing. Iam saying that certs are good for the short run only. If people in my country had a little education, they might not be in this mess that theyre in now.
Other people in Afghanistan were people who knew how to hammer boards together and build roofs (Architects).
Some knew a little about herbal medicine and knew how to remedy simple illnesses. (Doctors)
While there were the elite few who could build bridges that could support the weight of livestock. They were known as "Engineers".
There was no electricity, meaning no electicians and no pc's.
Iam not saying that education is not a good thing. Iam saying that certs are good for the short run only. If people in my country had a little education, they might not be in this mess that theyre in now.
hello all,
i used to teach unix at the computer learning center. in my first lecture, i used to hold up the book and say that i don't care what you know. employers only care about what you can do for them that makes them $$$. i told the class to read the book; but, then i brought in work assignments for the students. i preached that the $$$ for the course did not pay for the book, or for the teacher and the lectures. the true worth of the course was to spend all your free time in the lab. you have to get used to the look and the feel, and how to think as unix thinks. i treated the students more as employees on probation than students. and, if they survived the class, a 6 hr. final exam was waiting. i think certification is a great start; but what can you do at the #?
i used to teach unix at the computer learning center. in my first lecture, i used to hold up the book and say that i don't care what you know. employers only care about what you can do for them that makes them $$$. i told the class to read the book; but, then i brought in work assignments for the students. i preached that the $$$ for the course did not pay for the book, or for the teacher and the lectures. the true worth of the course was to spend all your free time in the lab. you have to get used to the look and the feel, and how to think as unix thinks. i treated the students more as employees on probation than students. and, if they survived the class, a 6 hr. final exam was waiting. i think certification is a great start; but what can you do at the #?
AIXSPadmin
MIS
"i treated the students more as employees on probation than students. and, if they survived the class, a 6 hr. final exam was waiting."
I am glad you stated "used to teach..." and sincerely hope that is the case. From the statement you printed above, that is totally unacceptable for an instructor (teacher) in any environment.
I say that as a former educator with a master's in education.
I am glad you stated "used to teach..." and sincerely hope that is the case. From the statement you printed above, that is totally unacceptable for an instructor (teacher) in any environment.
I say that as a former educator with a master's in education.
I am currently in the process of studying for Solaris certification. I am a Novell CNE and MS MCP. I've used Linux on my personal laptop since 1994. I bought the $20.00 CD from Sun that contained an Intel version of Solaris. It has just about everything the SPARC edition has, the most notable exception being the ability to work with OpenBoot. So, I've been running Solaris for six months now. Novice11, if you're still following this thread, and you can afford it, get the CD from Sun and start working with it. I wish there were more people like you out there eager to learn and improve yourself. Good Luck.
newport457
Technical User
SCSA IS NOT EASY
It takes a great deal of patients to learn and remember + you have to enjoy what your doing, this is no ragtag guess this is that answer CERT, granted it takes a couple of years to really hone in "Excellent-Skills" in this area, both exams are more than adaquate to qualify someone as a system admin, the earth wasn't made in a day.
Study hard
get to your workstations
and goodluck to those taking the exams.
It takes a great deal of patients to learn and remember + you have to enjoy what your doing, this is no ragtag guess this is that answer CERT, granted it takes a couple of years to really hone in "Excellent-Skills" in this area, both exams are more than adaquate to qualify someone as a system admin, the earth wasn't made in a day.
Study hard
get to your workstations
and goodluck to those taking the exams.
Well I have read everyone's comments and I just thought I will add a few.
I think everyone has in their view a valid point, I don't think anyone is bashing anyone or putting people off getting certifications.
Just to give you a little insight, I don’t have any UNIX certifications, nor really do I have much of an education.
A few years ago I could not even turn on a computer I was a builder to trade, however I went into computers as I felt I was getting left behind, I started in Microsoft Windows and moved onto Macintosh on a support helpdesk after 2 weeks of basic training, I took it from there then I talked my way into a Unix Systems admin job not knowing a thing about UNIX just what I read up on for a few hours before I applied for the role.
I got into the job and 8 – 10 hours a day 5 days a week you cant help but learn the system.
2 years down the line with the same company I am on my 3 contracted accounts with 3 promotions behind me. These accounts I won’t mention names but they have been the 3 largest Banks/Building Societies in the UK, so you can take from that the sort of responsibility and technology involved in the running of these types of business.
I am not saying I am the bees knees because I am not, I will say however it would be nice the have that certification and I will also say I love the O/S and with sites like this one with the members always on hand to help out makes like that much easier and stops you banging your head off the walls.
So in short go for it…… and if you get the chance to be certified too then grab it with both hands.
Thanks for listening.
Ian
I think everyone has in their view a valid point, I don't think anyone is bashing anyone or putting people off getting certifications.
Just to give you a little insight, I don’t have any UNIX certifications, nor really do I have much of an education.
A few years ago I could not even turn on a computer I was a builder to trade, however I went into computers as I felt I was getting left behind, I started in Microsoft Windows and moved onto Macintosh on a support helpdesk after 2 weeks of basic training, I took it from there then I talked my way into a Unix Systems admin job not knowing a thing about UNIX just what I read up on for a few hours before I applied for the role.
I got into the job and 8 – 10 hours a day 5 days a week you cant help but learn the system.
2 years down the line with the same company I am on my 3 contracted accounts with 3 promotions behind me. These accounts I won’t mention names but they have been the 3 largest Banks/Building Societies in the UK, so you can take from that the sort of responsibility and technology involved in the running of these types of business.
I am not saying I am the bees knees because I am not, I will say however it would be nice the have that certification and I will also say I love the O/S and with sites like this one with the members always on hand to help out makes like that much easier and stops you banging your head off the walls.
So in short go for it…… and if you get the chance to be certified too then grab it with both hands.
Thanks for listening.
Ian
- Status
