IT Work in a Law Firm 2

[caliborn]

I am currently looking for an new job and would love the opportunity to work in a law firm but most of the time when I'm reading the position desciption it says "Previous Law Experience Required to even be considered" I have the job experience and education but how does one get the industry experience if everyone requires it before even bieng considered for employment? Would it make a difference if I let them know I've worked for a Professional Services firm(Accounting) even though it was 10 years ago?


Thanks

 

[paterson]

I would put in my resume anyway. The worst case is that they say no. You haven't really lost anything except a bit of time. Who knows, they might not get any applicants that fit the description and might choose to look to other qualified people.

BTW, I would seriously think about not going to a law firm. Typically, lawyers are dumber than sticks when it comes to technology and will only half listen to you when it comes to user training or showing them anything after the fact. When they have a problem, they want immediate resolution without disturbing or inconviencing their day and will rarely take the time to understand how they messed things up so they don't do it again.


Sorry, rant off...LOL



**************************************
My Biggest problem is that I almost always believe what I tell myself.

 

[mmorancbt]

Definitely put your resume in and, if possible, contact the Executive Director of the firm - be open with your lack of experience but also convey your interest in the field.

Having provided technology services to some of the largest law firms in the world (I build document assembly/automation systems), I love the environment. However, understand that part of what paterson says above is true.

Not so much that attorneys are "dumb" - dumb, in my opinion, being a gauge of intellectual capacity - but they are typically busy and bill by the hour. Therefore, technology is often perceived (and may be) and hindrance to what they do. Should you get the job, remember that. If you can learn to navigate the partners at a law firm, you can probably deal with the most difficult personalities you come across.

Usually, they are very intelligent and also very demanding.

Once again, I love the environment but I know some people who really struggled when faced with a strong-willed and angry attorney. For me, I understood their frustration, didn’t really concern myself if they were abrasive, did my best to solve the problem and not “inconvenience” them.

Fair/Not Fair, Right/Not Right, and “he shouldn’t talk to me like that,” are all terms that are meaningless in that type of environment.

But if/when you win over some of your most demanding and least patient clients, the benefits can be nice.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[ThomasLafferty]

Some of the best job search advice I have ever seen comes from one Nick Corcodillos of

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com

fame. Very sage advice, and atypical and in your face, I might add! Not for the faint of heart! In a nutshell, you need to focus on how you will use your skills to solve your client's problems and do so in a profitable manner. While most employers blindly require a resume, most also seem clueless that it is a description of what [!]was[/!] for some [!]other[/!] employer. Bottom line, show how you will put more money in the client's pocket by doing the voodoo that you do - show how your method saves time, reduces mistakes and thereby makes him or her [!]more money[/!] and an employer will fall over him/herself to hire you. Think of it this way - he or she has a problem/set of problems which need solving because the position is open. You come waltzing on the scene with a well-thought-out plan to solve those problems, [!]demonstrate your ability[/!] in the interview (not just by shaking hands in the right colored suit and making clever ear-tickling responses) and you will be a shoe-in. The hard part is finding out in advance of the interview what vexes the employer. This takes significant research and is decidedly [!]NOT[/!] the kind of thing you will find in the want ads. In particular, I would start with Nick's section entitled The Basics.

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/basics.htm

There's a wealth of fabulous, powerful information on his site, and it's not a rehash of the brainless junk you will find on the likes of Monster.com.

Hope this helps.

Live once die twice; live twice die once.

 

[mmorancbt]

I like what he writes. It is actually advocating something that I have promoted for years. In fact, I was a speaker at a number of career conferences this year - one topic, Throw Away The Resume. I will have a two articles appearing on informit.com about the same topic this month.

I too approach the entire career/job/opportunity development from the standpoint of value and business acumen - in particular for the IT professional.

Here are some entries from my blog, written over the past two years:

Threee Questions:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/archives/3-questions-8616

Non-traditional routes to an IT career:

Part 1:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/caree...l-routes-roles-for-your-it-career-part-1-6772

Part 2:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/caree...utes-and-roles-for-your-it-career-part-2-6837

Part 3:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/caree...l-routes-roles-for-your-it-career-part-3-6893

Creating Career Coincidences

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/archives/create-career-coincidences-1346

The fact is that want ads, job boards, and recruiters are your least effective way to get the job that pays what you want. It is always about value - always about your ability to define/discover their need and deliver their solution- to be the hero as it were.

He also points to something else that I (actually Bolles - What Color Is Your Parachute - talked about this fact 35 years ago) have written and discussed at length.

Job seekers and employers seek each other from opposite directions.

Employers always look for a known commodity - in house, client/customer, referral from employee or acquaintance. When they get desparate, they approach the open market - the want ad, job board. At that point, they are least likely to pay a premium because they are about to spend considerable money on the search.

Job seekers, on the other hand, typically start their search at the place where employers end theirs - the want-ad, job board. Here is a graphic I published on my blog last year and used at several of last year's conferences.

http://www.cbtoolkit.com/images/jobseekers.jpg

Think about how you can meet employer's at their point of need.

I hope you find the information helpful.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[LadySlinger]

I apply to the job and state in the cover letter why you want the opportunity to work in a law firm. If you have the right attitude that they're looking for, you will most likely get interviewed. Just keep that same enthusiasm as what you put in the cover letter and you should have a shot.

I consider you a brave person though. Lawyers can get a little spoiled from time to time or everyday. Plus if its a fast pace law firm, you may experience rush to get things done, and the lawyers will have little time to learn new things. Remember: the paralegals are your friends. LOL.

 

[ThomasLafferty]

This is true - you may get the opportunity to be sized up on the basis of a piece of paper (resume, cover letter). This sort of thing forces you to lead with your past, which even for a stellar candidate is not a strong beginning. If you must submit a piece of paper, why not give him or her something irresistable? Why not submit what Nick Corcodillos calls the "Blasphemous Resume?"

[!]Here's what a Blasphemous Resume doesn't have:[/!]

1. A skills/qualifications list
2. Your work history
3. Your education/credentials/certifications
4. A keyword summary designed to overwhelm the database

What [!]should[/!] it contain? A rough sketch of your understanding of the employer's problems that the job you are interviewing for is designed to solve and an overview of your plan to solve them profitably. Don't go into too much detail, but do enough to be credible. Instead of a [!]L-A-M-E[/!] section at the top of your resume like this:

OBJECTIVE:
Seeking a position as an IT professional in a progressive law firm

Try something powerful that they will find a hard time resisting:

VALUE OFFERED:
*Powerful, user-friendly web presence for advertising and managing clients
-Potential Revenue:
$300,000 in new clients
-Potential Savings:
$5,000 less than typical fees

*Reduce server outages by 85% within 30 days
-Potential Savings:
$50,000 in preventable loss of customers

*Automate client mailings by creation and maintenance of in house database
-Potential Savings:
$30,000 to hire an outside consultant

APPROXIMATE TOTAL VALUE OFFERED:
$385,000

These numbers are, of course, entirely fictional and in no way representative of an actual scenario. The point is this:
Do you really want to lead off a discussion with any potential employer on the basis of what you USED TO DO, or what YOU want?

If you do due dilligence, you can uncover enough information to make an intelligent case for how the employer will benefit from hiring you, but if not, you will probably have to answer a bunch of inane, impertinent questions like, "What was your previous job title?" Honestly, now, who really cares? A sensible employer should know that being a technician for Weyerhaeuser is not identical to being a technician for Boeing. Besides, many companies use different titles for these kinds of things. A resume/cover letter approach to looking for work is lazy and a great way to sell yourself short and pigeon hole yourself into doing what you've always done for a wage that you've always gotten.

If you can demonstrate your value concretely in the interview by rolling up your sleeves and actually doing something, you will be miles ahead of the poor soul who hands a perfect stranger a complicated document like a resume and essentially implies, "Trust me. It's all true. By the way, you figure out if I fit in." Incidentally, the value you offer an employer is what [!]justifies[/] your wage! Don't worry about being dead on with your figures - just let the employer know that they are estimates and that you are more than happy to discuss them and show why you believe it is so.

In a nutshell, then, a Blasphemous Resume is a business proposal, which if well written and properly targeted will almost guarantee you an interview, especially if you are introduced through a mutual contact. With a presentation like the above, guess what the content of the interview will be? [!]Show me[/!]. Obviously, this is a bit risky. What if you aren't able to solve the problems? No harm, no foul! Walk away with the knowledge that the job isn't for you. Isn't this better than bamboozling someone with a well crafted (read crafty) resume? I can't tell you how many people I have heard of who got jobs this way only to find that the job wasn't a good fit. This method is far better, puts you in near complete control of the interview, and gives the employer a solid set of reasons for hiring you.

Tom


Live once die twice; live twice die once.

 

[caliborn]

thanks for all the timely advice. I too consider myself kind of a wack job for wanting to work in a law firm but I have a friend in LA who works for one and he loves it because of the challenge and at this point in my career I would love to meet that same challenge head on.

 

[finalee]

I work in law firms in the UK, and it's the same. To a degree...

The big London firms are strictly 'law firm experience' only because of the reasons listed above (i.e. the stressed-out lawyer factor) and the niche software they use. A few years ago (basically post the Y2K let down when IT took a bit of a down-turn), they changed and started employing anyone with IT experience.

This didn't work because they found that people just didn't stay because they couldn't hack the environment, so they went back to 'law firm experience' only.

Now that said, the regional (non-London) firms will take anyone with general IT skills as they:

1. Don't pay as much
2. Don't have the same massive pool of prospective employees to choose from as in London

So in the UK my advice is:

Get your experience in the regional firms and the move to London to earn the money.

Not sure if it's the same for you guys...





Legal IT Jobs:

http://www.legalitjobs.net

 

[KornGeek]

Wow, this thread had some very interesting advice. I'm not (necessarily) looking to work in a law firm, but I plan to try some of the strategies outlined here. The standard (search job board; send resume) approach hasn't been working, so I really have nothing to lose.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[58sniper]

Of our ~700 clients, about 80% are law firms. As mentioned above, one of the reasons it's important to have experience is because of the specialized software used. This includes docketing, time & billing, electronic case filing, indexing, etc. Most of these applications are ONLY in the legal field.

When a law firm is billing hundreds, or even thousands of dollars per hour per attorney, most firms find it hard to have have someone come in and learn software from the start.

Pat Richard, MCSE MCSA:Messaging CNA
Microsoft Exchange MVP
Want to know how email works? Read for yourself -

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt