IT education 5

[pkiscribe]

Hello people,
I am new to the IT field. I currently work on a help desk and enjoy it. I spent most of my adult life in the military in Telecom. I am currently attending my local tech college. The telecom program has a strong focus on networking (Cisco, Microsoft, Linux) and security which I really enjoy.
My problem is there does not seem to be a 4 year program that I can transfer to. Looking around it appears that all the 4 year degrees are geared toward programmers(nothing wrong with that, just not to my interst). I have seen through a few other threads the recommendation to maybe get an MBA after getting the CS degree but I am finding it hard to see a path for my B.S.

So my questions are these:
1, Is there a B.S degree out there that would apply to my interest?

2, If not how would you recommend I proceed after receiving my A.S. knowing I really have no desire to program.

Thanks in advance

 

[RhythmAddict112]

Computer Science at most 4 year institutions equates to mostly programming, and some other (process flow/networking/business-y) stuff...But I would say it's centered around programming (as I had 5-10 required courses solely on programming) Perhaps look the information systems route after your A.S. or take a look at networking certifications... Personally, I would look at info sys programs, though...

All hail the INTERWEB!

 

[lgarner]

I went the IS route instead of CS. There was some programming, but less. It had some networking and database stuff, also.

 

[pkiscribe]

Thanks Rhythm and lgarner I will look into these.

 

[RiverGuy]

I'm assuming you would have heard about it by now if your college offered it, but some colleges allow you to get an AAS degree that is transferable to a university BAS degree program. It basically means that the first 2 years at the community college level are heavily technical, and when you start the BAS university program, you will make up for some of that with more general ed type classes.

Otherwise, if you try to transfer your courses to a normal B.S. degree, many of them may have no direct equivelent at the university and be considered general electives, thus requiring you to make up courses.

 

[pkiscribe]

You have hit the nail on the Head there RiveGuy. There does not seem to be a B.S. program that even comes close to the 2 year courses I am taking. The good thing about my school (and most tech schools)are the labs for hands on project work. I really enjoy network admin and design, but as for transfering to a B.S. program there does not seem to be one that will build on what I am learning now.

 

[CajunCenturion]

One possible reason is that network admin is not computer science. Many people think that IT and CS are synomous but they are from it. Paramedics are not doctors, and paralegals are not attorneys.

Computer science is not just writing programs. Computer science is proving algorithms. It is computational theory - ie what is computable and why and what is not and why. It is machine architecture, alternatives to the traditional von Neumann design. Computer science is not normalizing a database, it is developing the mathematical set theory that leads to the concept of normalization. Computer science is development of new languages, artificial intelligence, and so on and so forth. Computer science is not building or configuring a network, it is designing the protocols and the development of standards, hardware and software, so the network actually works.

I guess you could say that IT is applying technology. Computer Science is developing technology. I'm not saying that either is better than the other, but that they are very different, and you need both. Without Computer Science, there would be no technology to apply. Without anyone to apply it, the technology is useless.

Good Luck
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[RhythmAddict112]

Well said, Cajun.

All hail the INTERWEB!

 

[pkiscribe]

CajunCenturion

I see your point, and it brings me back to my questions:
1. Is there a program out there that is geard more to the tech hands on side?

2. If not, with the experiance you have in the IT field would you recommend I chose another major for my B.S. degree?

 

[CajunCenturion]

I'm not sure what you mean by "tech hands on side". My graduate work in software engineering had a large hands and laboratory component in additional to the rigorous mathematical underlying theory. I'm aware of, but not (to my chagrin) involved with, a number of some robotic projects that are very hi-tech hands-on projects.

I know you said that you have no desire to program, but let's back up a minute. Yes, programming can be an inventory system, or an accounting system, or producing reports, and other rather mundane stuff. But before you write-off programming, note that programming is also writing operating systems, and building compilers. Programming is developing the logic the executes on the network card so it knows which packets to ignore, and which to read, and how to reconstruct them. Programming can be embedded systems, such as an aircraft auto-pilot, or an automobile ignition system. Back to robotics, programming is also building a visual system so that the robot can see objects in its path and sending commands to the navigation system to change direction so it doesn't run into the object. The navigation system is also programming, which accepts inputs from the visual system, and other sensor systems (which also are programmed), and then directing the motor serves to control the robot's movement.

If programming doesn't interest you, then computer science may not be for you. The best program for you is dependant on what you want to do, and where you want to take your career.

Where do you want to be this time next year?
Where do you want to be in five years?
Where to you want to be in ten years?

What excites you?

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[langleymass]

Most techies who started in the military have done just fine with little formal education. There is no substitute for experience.

Plus, with military experience, you will have an easier getting any government job.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Most techies who started in the military have done just fine with little formal education.
The US Military is the world's largest education institution and runs more technical schools across more disciplines than anyone else. Not counting the academies, quite a few of the tech schools are accredited, and almost every one provides transferrable college credit. Some of the tech schools are fully accredited and have associate degree conferring authority.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[kHz]

Most techies who started in the military have done just fine with little formal education. There is no substitute for experience.

No military experience?

The US Air Force has the world's largest Community College - Community College of the Air Force.

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/ccaf/active_transc.htm

 

[bLaCkDrAgOn258]

I was stuck with the same issue you are when I was college hunting. I actually, ended up taking my bachelors program from a Tech school named Westwood College of Technology, in their online program since I didn't want to give up my 40 hour a week tech job I started right out of high school. My bachelors of science is in Network Administration, which covered Cisco components, windows AD, Linux OS and on from there. I enjoyed it, but found that I knew a lot of what was being covered but more in detail.

Jay, BSCS

 

[lionelhill]

a bit off-topic (but following Cajun's first post)

I find it somewhat alarming that many people who work in IT are shaky on the differences between computer science, programing, and IT-technology roles such as network admin type jobs.

We tech-users are much more shaky.

The result is a danger that IT-shaky employers will take on a (for example) highly skilled database administrator, and ask him/her to write a numerical data processing algorithm. And the IT person won't necessarily know they have the wrong IT skills for the job.

 

[langleymass]

If you are always making the money you want, why bother with a degree?

 

[Glenn9999]

I definitely agree with lionelhill. Actually the umbrella of "computers" is so vast that you can probably have three "IT" degrees and have them cover vastly different things. Definitely not equivalent given a requirements set. But how many employers would know the difference between those degrees? Not many, since it would require an intimate knowledge of the programs and the kind of material covered in the classes. One IT degree might be network admin, another might be PC programming and dev, another might be mainframe development. The three are mutually exclusive and if you find that you took a kind of degree with no demand in the market, you're shut out when it comes to skills.

Like I said in another thread, it goes back to IT being a "vendor tools instruction" degree. Don't have the right vendor tools, you might as well be irrelevant - the employers will figure out the differences through the interview based on that.

And like I have mentioned before, I've done a couple of programs to complete requirements that required some of the Computer Science tools I learned, and found out that most of the IT degrees had no clue of how the program worked. I hope they figured out eventually before it needed mods.

Maybe I ought to write up a full listing of the differences between CS and IT programs sometime since I've seen what both are and what both are like in my college experiences.

 

[pkiscribe]

I would first like to say thank you for all the good info, but I think I may have confused a few people with the way I phrased my question. I don't think I have mistaken the difference between IT and computer science, however I do think I have been unclear in asking my question.
My original question was, or should have been, are there any programs at the B.S level that focus more on network engineering/management and less on computer science/programing. Looking back on my post I see that I was not clear in saying that it was recommended to others that they maybe get a C.S. degree followed by a MBA to progress in our field. I apologize for the confusion. My problem is there does not seem to be a four year school in my area that offers anything (to use Cajun's term) in applying technology.

 

[Glenn9999]

My original question was, or should have been, are there any programs at the B.S level that focus more on network engineering/management and less on computer science/programing."

OK to address your question. Sure there are. Like I said, there are different kinds of IT degrees. You're just going to have to shop around different places and look at the degree requirements and course syllabi of each. You might ultimately have to move, though, because you might not find exactly what you are looking for.

But keep in mind, a lot of networking does require programming skill (beyond the simple pulling of cable and installation of NIC cards). You might not see it in the position you're in, but when it comes to setting up major networking systems, there's always some programming code there governing its behavior. Like with an audio response system, you may hear "transferring call to the next available person", but what that box is doing is taking your touch-tone answers, and transferring the call to an appropriate facility for the product, determining the number of lines available, and then providing an appropriate response. A coding path. There are many other examples too.

The thing is though, since a 4 year IT degree usually involves some business courses, you might look into a 2 year college or tech school to get your networking background and then transfer into a 4 year institution that can provide the business courses and will allow the transfer of the degree (most do if you earn an AS out of the 2 year institution).

But I'm not sure you're going to get away from programming in any event.

 

[imterpsfan3]

Centurion--your quote "Yes, programming can be an inventory system, or an accounting system, or producing reports, and other rather mundane stuff."

Creating an inventory system, accounting system or producting reports is not "mundane". I would say two out of 10 people who call themselves "Programmer" could actually create a professional inventory or accounting system with a normalized database and help system...one that was intuitive, etc.

To the original poster: You may want to look at taking some regimen at a community college. I know the one around here offers quite a few networking classes. Also you may want to look at Strayer University or something of that ilk. I know Strayer offers a 4-year degree in networking. It's an online university foremost but you can attend the classes as well in person.