Is US the only one with English system left? 3

[Andrzejek]

Since this is an Overcoming Obstacles Getting My Work Done Forum, I would like to address one ‘obstacle’ from my work and get some information from others.

Where I work – state agency in the middle of USA – we mostly use English system of measuring stuff, with all the feet, inches, miles, ounces, pounds, degrees Fahrenheit and all of the nightmare of all the weird and tough to remember re-calculation formulas. We also use metric system, but in very, very limited way.

And here is my question:
Are there any other places in the world where people still suffer by using the measure of a king’s foot, or the distance from the middle of king’s nose to his hand (for a yard) as a unit of distance? Just because you may drive on the left side of the road does not mean you use English system in your every day life or at work, right?

We are already (almost) 10 years into the XXI century and I would like to know if USA is the only country our there in the world stuck with English system? Do people in England moved over to metric system?


Have fun.

---- Andy

 

[strongm]

>The French invented the metric system

John Wilkes, English, 1668. He just didn't find too many people interested at the time.

 

[flapeyre]

John Wilkes, English, 1668. He just didn't find too many people interested at the time.

And 341 years later, not a whole lot has changed, it would seem. Inertia applies to human nature with equal (if not greater) force than to physical objects.



-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[lionelhill]

There are clocks around with 10 hours instead of 12 on their faces from the French republican time system. There's certainly one in the Fitzwilliam museum in Cambridge UK, and probably many others in the world.

Personally I'm not a big fan of base 10 counting since 10 is divisible by only 2 numbers greater than 1, one of which is rarely useful (5). The world would have been a better place if we'd chosen to count base 12, but it's too late now. And yes, counting base 12 on fingers is really easy (a hand can display 0..5 very nicely, so base 6 is the simplest hand-count available; base 12 easily derived).

The problem with the imperial systems isn't the fact they don't use base 10; it's the fact they mix bases willy-nilly. 12" = 1'; 3'=1yard, 22yards = 1 chain, 10 chains = 1 furlong, and I think it's 20 furlongs to a mile isn't it?

 

[Andrzejek]

English / Metric is not only linear way of measuring stuff, it is also volume, temperature, weight, energy, etc.

If you take 1/10 of a meter (10 cm) and make a cube out of it, (10 x 10 x 10 cm) and you pour water in it, you get 1 liter of water, which weights 1 kg. Then if you add 1000 Jules of energy (I am not sure if 1000 is the correct amount, but I know it is some round number) you heat it up 1 degree Celsius. Pretty neat.

Nobody could show me these kinds of relationships between English measurements. Unless you take some crazy conversion numbers and they will never be easy to remember.

As for the clocks – I have a clock that works ‘backwards’, also known as a barber clock. Used to have it in my office. People had a hard time to tell the time by looking at it, but eventually some of them could tell the time with no problem, they got used to it. But then there was another problem – they had to stop and think when they look at the ‘regular’ clock, they had to remind themselves which way the hands go.


Have fun.

---- Andy

 

[strongm]

>There are clocks around

It's been tried more recently than that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time

Mind you, my father used to work for Nicolas G. Hayek in a somewhat senior role and hasn't ever been complimentary about him ...

 

[lionelhill]

Andrzejek,
I'm afraid it isn't as neat as that. The specific heat capacity of water is about 4.18 Joules per g per degree C (or K), but that's not entirely the fault of the metric system. There's nothing fundamentally special about water, compared to any other liquid, and unfortunately it wouldn't be possible to make a unit that "fitted in" with the specific heat capacity of water as well as fitting in with other useful functions, such as the relationship between energy (Joules) and mass/distance/time (KE = 0.5(mv^2)).

In fact, the Metric system can sometimes look a bit arbitrary: One Joule is the energy required to move one coulomb of charge up one volt, but one coulomb is one Amp for one second. The charge on an electron, which is actually a fundamental value, is 1.602176487 × 10-19 Coulomb, so unfortunately the SI (Metric) system comes up with a very non-integer relationship between the fundamental unit of charge, and the SI unit of charge.

Some bits of the world just aren't neat.

Having said the above, the Imperial system is even more disastrous.

 

[sha76]

Isn't it calories that tie in neatly with heating water? I seem to remember 1 calorie heats 1cm cubed of water by 1 degree C? (I also remember burning peanuts under test tubes of water to determine their calorie content, though I suspect a fair bit of the heat never reached the water!)

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[j0ckser]

the following article at wikipedia gives a reasonably good appreciation of metric use in canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Canada

part of our challenge is our proximity to the USA and their intransigence in switching. another part is the lack of leadership on the part of our politicians.

some examples:

1. all pressure pipe manufactured for use in in north america is defined by its nominal pipe size (NPS) with the number (e.g., NPS 2) sort of representing the diameter in inches. the manufactured length is also measured in inches, but if one is measuring partial lengths, there is a good chance that that measurement will be in metric.

2. buying soda pop beverages is quirky. a regular size can is 355 ml equivalent to 12 oz (US) but nowhere on the can does it say 12 oz. i don't buy this often, so i cannot say what one would find in the US.

3. all fresh grocery produce is sold by metric, BUT also usually shows the imperial equivalent.

americans and canadians alike complain about the cost of goods, but have no notion of the enormous cost of producing stuff in this way. if we were isolated, we could get away with not using metric, but we aren't. the sooner politicians learn to lead and make good decisions about things like this, the sooner our cost of goods will improve.

per ardua ad astra

 

[MasterRacker]

In the US, soda comes in 12oz cans or 2 liter bottles. Go figure.

My favorite years ago was a catalog that gave the length of an air cylinder in cm-in.

Jeff
[small][purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/small]

 

[flapeyre]

And liquor (which used to come in 4/5 quart bottles (25.6 fluid ounces, or 757 ml) now is standardized down to 750 ml. The rounding error definately favors the liquor companies.

Just about all medical stuff is metric (no more 5-grain aspirin tablets; they are 325 mg), and automobile fasteners are metric, even for US designed cars (although as long as I can remember, spark plugs had an 18 mm thread (Ford) or 14 mm (everybody else). License plates are fastened to the car with 1/4 inch bolts spaced exactly 7 inches apart (but, to be fair, that standard goes back to 1956).

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[Andrzejek]

2. buying soda pop beverages is quirky. a regular size can is 355 ml equivalent to 12 oz (US) but nowhere on the can does it say 12 oz. i don't buy this often, so i cannot say what one would find in the US.

I checked the can with 7UP - it says 12oz / 355 ml in US

Just FYI - in a US State agency where I work one metric unit (for rock, gravel) is expressed in MG (mega gram which is a ton)

Have fun.

---- Andy

 

[johnwm]

Interesting to look at a map of (purported) metric/imperial usage - see

http://www.metric4us.com/

If you want the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first.
'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'
Drive a Steam Roller

 

[Andrzejek]

Where do we have this foot measure from in US:

[...]early in the 13th century, during the reign of good King Henry III of England, Henry decided one day, when he was particularly bored and could find nothing else to do, that he should standardize the units of measure in use throughout his kingdom. So by royal decree, the foot forevermore became the familiar one of 12 inches which we know today. (History does not record the length of Henry's foot, but I have a hunch . . . )

And, moving to the XX century:
Metric mishap caused loss of NASA orbiter

(CNN) -- NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a key spacecraft operation, according to a review finding released Thursday.

Have fun.

---- Andy

 

[gbaughma]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it....

But the reason the U.S. still uses the Imperial system is because....



(drum roll)

... They don't want to re-name the quarter-pounder from McDonald's.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[flapeyre]

Admittedly, Greg, the "McDonald's 113.398093 Gramer" doesn't have quite the same appeal.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[hjgoldstein]

Not to mention that famous Judy Garland Film

The Wizard of 28.3495231 grams

 

[kmcferrin]

Admittedly, Greg, the "McDonald's 113.398093 Gramer" doesn't have quite the same appeal.

Actually...

[VINCENT]
Alright, when you .... into a movie theatre in Amsterdam, you can buy beer.
And I don't mean in a paper cup either. They give you a glass of beer
And in Paris, you can buy beer at MacDonald's.
And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?

[JULES]
They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with Cheese?

[VINCENT]
No, they got the metric system there, they wouldn't know what the ^&*# a Quarter Pounder is.

[JULES]
What'd they call it?

[VINCENT]
They call it Royale with Cheese.

[JULES]
Royale with Cheese. What'd they call a Big Mac?

[VINCENT]
Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call it Le Big Mac.

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[flapeyre]

Funny, I thought the French would call a Big Mac "tous les deux pâtés de boeuf, sauce spéciale, de laitue, fromage, cornichons, oignons sur un petit pain aux graines de sésame."

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[flapeyre]

And a "Quarter Pounder with cheese" translates to "Quart de livre avec fromage".

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[Thadeus]

Since the discussion actually approached the how do they say it portion: From what I read, it is just called Royal Cheese. No 'with'/'avec'. There are pics of the sign here.

~thadeus