Is it ethical to quit your job when... 2

[BJCooperIT]

you know it will cause the project implementation to be delayed and will cost the taxpayers a huge amount of money?

Does it depend on your reason or not?

[sup]Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time. ~Steven Wright[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
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[guestgulkan]

I don't really see what the problem is BJCooperIT.
People are always coming and going within companies, people get sick, etc.. Projects can be delayed for a variety of reasons.
Why should the loss one ONE person have such a detrimental affect on a project??
Personnel turnover/change is just another facet of project management (resource management)

 

[PCLine]

BJCooperIT
I would just like to offer you an alternative way at looking at costs to the taxpayer.

In the original post you mention the cost of the a huge amount of tax payers dollars.

I'm a simple soul When someone puts $money forward as a reason for anything I want to know the values involved, otherwise how can you make a reasoned argument against the cost/money justification... ;-)

So the project is worth $X and your salary is worth $Y. How much, as a proportion, is your salary in relation to the projects overall cost? How much do you estimate the cost of a delay to be? Could the delay (and cost) be reduced by throwing bodies at it?

You would have to convince me that the costs were so significant to make you stay.

Ultimately, your health and happiness is worth more than the tax payers dollars (until you convince me otherwise ;-) ), so is the health, happiness and relationships of and with your nearest and dearest.

All the best.

 

[manarth]

it sounds like BJCooper is the one voice in th eporject asking why isn't the emperor wearing clothes?

BJCooper - At this stage it sounds like you've got nothing to lose: I'd suggest you have a full and frank discussion with a. the contracting agency and b. the person you report to on a daily basis and explain that you feel the situation - and the entire project - is unworkable in it's current state, and so you feel you can't continue to do your job without any firm foundations.

If they seem at all interested at this stage, be prepared to spell out exactly what changes you feel are required to make you stay and to allow you to achieve your project goals.

No.1 will obviously be GIVE ME A TEST DATABASE!!!!


If they are in any way able to recognise your talent and some basic (un)common sense, they will heed your words.

If they don't, then the project is indeed run by a bunch of buffoons who will ensure through their sheer haplessness that the project will collapse no matter what steps you take to support it. In which case, it's better to leave before you get dragged down with it.

Good luck!

<marc> i wonder what will happen if i press this...[ul][li]please give feedback on what works / what doesn't[/li][li]need some help? how to get a better answer: faq581-3339[/li][/ul]

 

[flapeyre]

BJCooperIT:

These people can't possibly be serious - the only thing I ever test in a production environment is a report (or sometimes a data fix program which has a list-only mode). I maean, they can always lease a server for you to test on, fer cryin' out loud! (A lot cheaper than this bureaucratic caprice is costing them - your tax dollars at rest).

There is no such thing as an indispensible employee. Staff comes and goes, but the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west every day.

The difference is, you might actually have the time to enjoy those sunrises and sunsets with your family!

Spell out, in writing, the reasons why this is a bad idea. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, take the next day off and watch the sun rise. And the next, and the next....


&quot;When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return.&quot;

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[CajunCenturion]

BJCooperIT - &quot; Apparently they now expect me to &quot;test&quot; in the production database!&quot;

We all know how horrendous such an implementation plan can be, and so I won't go into that, but I have to wonder why would anyone even consider such a plan.

Only one thought comes to mind. Given the policial nature within many state agencies, and given the current state of affairs (SNAFU) with respect to this project, one conclusion comes to mind. There are looking for someone to take the fall. Given your contractual arrangement, that you being with a sub-contractor, I think they are setting you up to be the fall person. By requiring you to test on a production database, and the high probability that failures will occur resulting in other real-time problems, the state agency can place all of the blame on prime contractor, and they can in turn, then place the blame on the sub-contractor and you. This will allow the state agency to save face to some degree, and allow the prime to save face as well, thus minimizing any damages to the relationship between the prime and the state. You (and your employer) however, may not be so lucky.

You might even be saving tax payer monies by not risking the costs incurred by the failures of testing on a production system.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BJCooperIT]

guestgulkan:
Just to clarify, I am the sole in-house developer. My responsibility is to convert legacy data prior to the project going live statewide. No conversion = no implementation. The application is a political hot potato.

PCLine:
I feel that the government has gotten their pound of flesh, from me in return for my wages. I have scripts written that any fool can run, but without testing, who knows how much cleanup work needs done? I also don't want to be the scapegoat blamed for implementation failure of an expensive purchased application. This does not even begin to address the money spent on servers, upgrades, training, and the $5,000,000 support contract with the vendor that must be paid even if the system never goes live.

manarth:
There is a meeting today to discuss creating a test database. I have stated since December that this was mandatory, problem is that I work for non-technical folks who haven't a clue. They went outside the IT umbrella and purchased software they want to use. IT in the state capital does not want to support the system because it breaks their rules (for example: Users can modify their own table structures - a big no-no). There are also some big egos at play here.

flapeyre:
I agree production can be a testing environment for query forms and reports, but never for updating. I will take your advice and put my requirements in writing (again, this time in bold & large font) for the powers that be.

Today I need to draw a line in the sand. I plan on making my needs crystal clear and taking a 4-day weekend while the users and IT fight it out.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
[sup]When posting code, please use TGML to help readability. Thanks![sup]

 

[skiflyer]

I like the last idea. Take your phone off the hook. Enjoy.

-Rob

 

[PCLine]

BJCooperIT

$5,000,000 = small potatoes (as a portion of tax payers money)

But the crux of the matter seems to be &quot;I also don't want to be the scapegoat...&quot;

So your question about Is it ethical to quit your job when...&quot; appears to be about how you can reconcile blame with your needs. I think once you have wrestled with that thought you will be better placed to understanding what is holding you back.

I hope you take my contribution in the friendly manner in which I offer it.

If I am off the mark, please feel free to riposte. I will not be offended.

All the best.

 

[BJCooperIT]

PCLine:
You might not believe this but it only ocurred to me that I might be the &quot;fall guy&quot; as I was typing my response. It hit me like a ton of bricks when up to that point all I had been considering was whether I could ethically get out of a bad situation. It had not sunk yet in that this could be a career-ending event. No offense taken. I, too, would question it if that had been my primary concern.

P.S.
I made my point during the meeting about needing a test environment. I was asked when the scripts would be ready to run in production to which I countered &quot;When will I be able to test them?&quot;. Jaws dropped.

I will be getting my test database but the critical question is whether I will get it in time to allow thorough testing by the first week of July . Once the conversion has run successfully I will walk out of here and never look back, even if the application never goes to production.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
[sup]When posting code, please use TGML to help readability. Thanks![sup]

 

[CajunCenturion]

BJCooperIT - I guess then you hadn't read my response before your reply to PCLine - our posts must have crossed each other.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BJCooperIT]

CajunCenturion:
You are right...we must have been typing in unison. Based on the meeting, I don't believe they were consciously setting me up but rather that they do not understand what the client is attempting. It does not mesh with their priorities and was not even a blip on their radar screen.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
[sup]When posting code, please use TGML to help readability. Thanks![sup]

 

[CajunCenturion]

I certainly hope you're right - and regardless, best of luck.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

BJCooperIT (Programmer) I take your statement of &quot;I have been told by the project manager that no matter what I can accomplish, this system will not be allowed to go to production by the powers that be in the state government.&quot;

Don't put it past them for setting you up. IT is involved as you point out.

Also think of it this way. If the above is true then you aren't wasting taxpayers money those that are letting this go any further are. Everything points to setting you up to have the finger pointed at like CajunCenturion has suggested.

 

[ADoozer]

im a firm believer in the fact that the goverment costs the tax payers money... not the honest sincere employees!!!(take the minelium dome for example)

i say if you havent already got the hell out... &quot;get the hell out&quot;

ps: enjoyed reading your posts... you really are one of the good guys!!!

my 2 pence anyways!!!

If somethings hard to do, its not worth doing - Homer Simpson
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