Is computer programming an art? 4

[Andrzejek]

I was looking for the definition of the word ‘art’ and found it here and point #7 here states:

7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.

Is there the art of computer programming?

Wickedly parodied on The Red Green Show, when Red offers some simple criteria for viewers to tell if something they see is art or not: “If I can do it, it's not art”. I am pretty sure Red can not write any computer program. So, is it an art?

Am I Information Technology Specialist (fancy word for computer programmer)? Or am I Information Technology Artist?

What are your thoughts on the subject?


Have fun.

---- Andy

 

[1DMF]

Making it do something that nobody THOUGHT of making it do before is art.

No, that's usualy a bug!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

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[2ffat]

No, that's usualy a bug!

No, that's a feature!! ;-)


James P. Cottingham
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[2ffat]

Hmmm.... According to Merriam-Webster's Online (cf. Building), if you are building a structure then it can be an "art."


James P. Cottingham
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[SamBones]

I think to be considered "art" or an "artist", there has to be room to be creative. Tying your shoe laces is a very mundane utilitarian activity, but I've seen people make some very creative lacing patterns and knots. This elevates their shoe tying to an art.

I think programming has room for a great deal of creativity, so there are programmers that are true artists.

I have also known programmers that are great technologists, but don't seem to be very creative. I don't consider these people artists at all.

 

[1DMF]

I've seen a few talented people on a Friday night who most definitely are creative artists.

They have turned drinking into an art as well as being creative with the inside of their stomach!

It's all relative to the perspective of the observer!




"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

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[Noway2]

They have turned drinking into an art as well as being creative with the inside of their stomach!

Especially when Mr. Tequila arrives, never alone but with all his friends. They have a tendency to leave the way they came in too.

 

[jsteph]

Tying your shoe laces is a very mundane utilitarian activity, but I've seen people make some very creative lacing patterns and knots. This elevates their shoe tying to an art.

Yes, but it is not the functional act of the shoe being fastened that is the art--it's the visual view of the laces that's seen as art.

So for Programming...If I were to doodle in my comments area, ie, write an artistic poem in the margins, would my programming be 'artistic'?

I'd submit that even very 'creative' ways of solving programming issues---'creative' here is semantically different in the sense of the word as it applies to 'art'. The creativity is, in my opinion, really a synonym here for 'clever' or 'skillful'. I just think art has to evoke an deeper emotion when seeing, hearing, or feeling the artistic creation, not just "That's smart" or "That's clever".
Just my opinion,
--Jim

 

[kwbMitel]

jsteph:

Imagine for a moment that you have written a program for outputing ASCII Art. The code, when viewed, in itself creates an ASCII art picture. Try and imagine the skill required to make that happen. Now you have something that is both funtional on one level but artistic on another.

This is but one example. The limits of artistry are only bounded by the imagination.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[kwbMitel]

Another example, although fictitious in reality, that would have met my definition of artistry.

Microsoft Windows - Haiku Error Messages

http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/haiku.asp

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[jsteph]

kwbMitel,
Yes, but the crux of my position is that in the examples, the programming itself isn't art--just the output.

The actual written code is not something I would expect a typical person to look at and have it evoke the emotions that might happen when that same person hears a song, sees a painting, etc--that's what good art can do.

The only emotion the off-the-street person who looking at code would probably get is boredom. So I would think that--stipulating for a moment that programming can be art--then appreciating this 'art' in programming would require a skill in programming to see whatever creativity was there. Not so with, say, painting--one needn't be either an artist nor a skilled painter to appreciate a great work.

I know the word 'art' itself is open to many definitions, so the original poster's question is open to many answers, each of them being 'right', just as most anything, it seems, can be put out there as 'art'. And anything is art--if the person who created it says so. For example, I would not call a crucifix dunked in urine art, but the 'art community' defiantly seems to think so. Although I think the level of defiance is tied more to political feelings than to creative...but i'd better not get started on that road...
--Jim

 

[cspilman]

...the programming itself isn't art--just the output.

IMO... not necessarily. Just as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", I also believe that art is in the eye of the beholder. True, a typical person most likely wouldn't see the program as art but another programmer might. There is more than one way to program that will have the same output and one programmer might find an artistic way of getting to the end result with his program.

Again, just my opinion.

Regards,
Chuck

 

[Annihilannic]

Imagine for a moment that you have written a program for outputing ASCII Art. The code, when viewed, in itself creates an ASCII art picture.

Such as these, which are not particularly brilliant since they use quite a lot of code:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/cumgranosal...ii-art-only-sucks-so-much-more-to-create.aspx

Or this one, which is brilliant:

http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html

But is it Art?

Annihilannic.

 

[kwbMitel]

jsteph Re:the crux of my position is that in the examples, the programming itself isn't art--just the output.

No. my first example was not an example of the output being art, but the way the code was arranged to have an appearance completely separate from the function.

To restate myself from earlier....

Where form and function are combined with elegance and a little of the ineffable mixed in you might have what I describe as art.

It's the ineffable part. By definition, something so great it cannot be described.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[vb5prgrmr]

Just another opinion but would you not say that now a days if you can create a program that does not crash on a M$ system or bring that M$ system down... would that not require just at least a little bit of artistry in the programming or at least in the error handling???

And while art is in the eye of the beholder, one cannot deny the artistry that goes into some programs like games, whether that be the graphics, the AI, the overall design, the functionality, the concept, the...

 

[1DMF]

Yeah Mac users / programmers have no skill or artistic flare, anyone could write a program for a system that works , never crashes and doesn't know the colour blue!

But seriously, art is subjective, how the hell can that bird win the turner prize will a drug users scummy bed, it's not art, but that's just my opinion.

She's not an artist, she's just a minger, who likes to tell everyone who she's slept with, artist? no slapper!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you."

"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

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[2ffat]

Deja Vu, I feel like I've read this thread before but instead of talking about programming, they were talking about Andy Warhol

In this thread I notice a divergence of opinions between programmers and non-programmers or am I just imagining it?


James P. Cottingham
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[hilfy]

I like to make an analogy about programming that relates to my own interests:

Designing and writing a program is like designing and sewing a quilt - you have to know how all of the pieces fit together and you have to be very precise about how everything lines up in order for it to make a cohesive, artistic whole.

This also applies to designing the database structures behind the program. The way I work, it all uses many of the same thought processes.

I'm not talking about the "gee-whiz," totally abstracted, overly technical solutions that use the latest and greatest theoretical practices and are almost unmaintainable (gee, can you tell I've had to work with a few of those!) I am talking about elegant, easily understood, easily maintainable code which to me is a work of art.

-Dell

A computer only does what you actually told it to do - not what you thought you told it to do.

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

I'd say that art is the end result of applying a skill that you have.

Whether it's a computer programmer skillfully crafting a demo (shameless plug ;-)), whether it's Damien Hirst preserving a sliced up horse in formaldehyde, or whether it's Eminem doing a song.

Each has their own skills and applies them to create art. Thus I'm as much of an artist as Hirst or Eminem.

Of course, whether this applies to all skills is arguable... for example, I'm not sure whether I'd call my end-of-year accounts "art", yet my accountant has the requisite skills to do them.

Dan



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[1DMF]

I'm not sure whether I'd call my end-of-year accounts "art", yet my accountant has the requisite skills to do them.

Depends how creative he's been with your tax avoidance ;-)

Very nice Atari homage, can you do a Q-Bert one?



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"If a shortcut was meant to be easy, it wouldn't be a shortcut, it would be the way!"

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[tcsbiz]

I think programming is more skill than art.

There are varying degrees of skill. For instance, I'm lousy at woodworking. No matter how hard I try to measure twice and cut once, I end up measuring five times and still getting it wrong. I could never be an artist in woodworking because I can't even develop a skill.

I have developed a skill with the trumpet. I love jazz and one of my favorite artists is Wynton Marsalis. Wynton and I can play the same notes and with the same speed. There's one thing that separates the two of us. Wynton can play the notes with a feeling, a soul, and an emotion that brings the notes he plays to the level of art. I do not have the feeling, the sould, and the emotion he does.

There are intangibles that bring skill to the level of art. Intangibles are not a good thing in programming.