Is Backup Exec a lot better than ArcServe (6.61 or 2000)?

[emerald]

Hi,
My current, inherited, solution (ArcServe 6.61, MS SQL DBase instead of RAIMA due to massive amounts of date - 13 TB per month on tape, growing 1 TB every month, with Qualstar 68120 Libraries) is not very satisfactory, to say the least.
I have to choose a new backup software product soon.Can anybody tell me what you think of Backup Exec?
At present, I´m dependent on the Support I get from ArcServe. Which is no support at all. I wonder if Backup Exec is any better?

I don´t need to backup any databases, just tons of files. As my company can get Backup Exec at a very favourable price, I´d like to know if I´m likely to have more success with this product.

I´d appreciate any help here...

 

[TheRealEricF]

I've had no experience with ArcServe, but I can tell you that Veritas'(BackupExec) tech support can be sketchy at best. Just look at the number of posts to this board!!! If the support were any good , this board may not even exist. What don't you like about ArcServe, besides dismal support?

 

[pbxman]

ARC serve towers over Backupexec..
like TheRealEricF said...just look at the posts here..

When you consider what ARCserve consists of, and it's scalability - it's truly a wonder why we use Backupexec at all..CA is not marketing it properly..thats my opinion, but it is a vastly superior product that the most major network enterprises use..so take that fact as you wish.
Pbxman
Systems Administrator

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[KevHF]

I have used both Veritas and ARcserve and find that if you want to back up NT servers simply and without issue Veritas is better. ARCserve 2K installed to a Win2k machine will not work - even for a simple job - out of the box. It doesn't set-up rights and permissions it requires to access it's own files.
As the guy prior mentioned, look at the posts in both ARserve and Veritas and bear in mind that the only reason anyone uses this area is because they have a problem and cannot solve it either themselves or via the normal software support. Some of the comments in the ARcserve area are very 'unhappy' with the product.
Official support from CA is limited to the first month after registering, if you need telephone support after this time period it is common practise to buy the product again to get another 30 days support.
I looked after around 20 NT4 servers with Veritas V8 over sites from abroad and local with little problems. I am now looking after 30 odd NT4/2K servers with ARCserve 2K locally and it is rare for me to have a complete succesfull night of backups.
Also bear in mind that the current MS backup is a cut down version of Veritas and so for small servers with little changed data you could use the free, included backup knowing that the interface is similar.

I am hoping to get my current company to move to Veritas in the future.
Kev

 

[dellboy]

I am vastly in favour of Veritas Backup exec.

I have used Arcserve for a very limted period of time, 3 weeks infact, my only comment is absolutely awful, avoid at all costs.

I know everyone has their own preferences and I have had to learn Veritas from the the ground up but all I can say is it works. I had to get backups working on an Exchange box, Arcserve couldn't backup mailboxes, when I asked the guys who had set it up what to do they said, oh it does that sometimes just try again, yeah, great backup strategy lads.

I called Veritas, got the free 60 day evaluation and had it backing up all mailboxes, without errors within 3 days. Its not a walk in the park but then no backup software is. I'm still working on the strategy and disaster recovery options etc 4 weeks later but I would recommend backup exec and you can try it for free, I can't really sing its praises highly enough, at the end of the day it works, if all you are doing is backing up files you should have no problem.

 

[pbxman]

Uh oh..i really started the ball rolling on this one i see..

My recommendation was not for an "easy" backupsolution per se.. but the most scaleable, and advanced backup software.

Backupexec is great for smaller companies since the demands aren't as high, and you dont need a training class on how to use it. But, the more skilled you become with ARCserve, the more you can do - far beyond the scope of backupexec.

ARCserve is not designed for inexperienced admins. Using ARCserve in the enterprise requires training.

Other than that point - I agree..Backupexec is much easier to learn & manage especially in a smaller environment without dedicated backup admins.
Pbxman
Systems Administrator

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[jwingstrom]

First some brief perspective.. My only experience with backup software prior to BE was several years with Dantz's Retrospect. So at first, I absolutely hated BE- wayyy more complicated, difficult interface, etc.. well in the end, that's what you get moving from a Mac program to a PC program.
Turns out that BE is a quite robust product, and more than 90% of my problems have been solved by ... gasp ... reading the freakin' manual! Don't be scared of it just because it's over 900 pages. A lot of it won't apply to your situation.
Beyond that, I find Veritas tech support to be excellent, although my company does own a support contract with them. The techs call you back and they know what they're doing, at least in my experience. The "just look at all the posts here" comment is somewhat misleading I think- you won't find anyone with positive experiences sounding off unless it's a thread like this one. For all we know there are millions of BE users with no problems at all (OK I doubt that but you get my point And I do believe that a lot of the troubles here could be solved by reading the manual.

All that said, I know absolutely nothing about ArcServ, never used it. I can tell you that BE has worked well for me in a medium-sized enterprise situation. As long as you are able to patiently and logically troubleshoot the sometimes tricky relationship between tape hardware/SCSI and a complicated program like BE, you'll be fine.

</babble>

 

[polymath5]

I've used both, much prefer Backup Exec. The few times I've had to use Veritas tech support I found it quite good, much better than similar issues with ArcServe.

I particularyly like Veritas SQL support over AS. Much easier to setup and it worked first time. AS was a pain to get working With CA support. This was with v6.61, so it might have changed with 2K.

 

[yossarian]

I've used arcserve from v6.5 onwards but 6 months ago decided to move to Backup Exec when we upgraded from NT to w2k. I have found that they are little different when you look at scaleability and functionality. Their both easy to learn the adminstration side.

However, Backup Exec is far better integrated with w2k; it is easier to impliment in the first place; and has more effective support (little used because as yet Backup Exec has been more stable than our Arcserve was.) But the big deal was the competitative upgrade we bought cost substanciallly less than upgrading from ArcServeIT 6.61 to ArcServe2000.

Wassail

 

[pbxman]

Im surprised people are having problems with ARCserve at all..our Win2K setup works flawlessly - whereas backupexec always had some quirk, and unexplained backup faiures, incorrect data compression reporting, etc.

I guess it's just a hit-or-miss ballgame with whatever works best on company networks.


Pbxman
Systems Administrator

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[Guest_imported]

I use both of the Products... Netware Servers I use Backup Exec 8.5 and Most NT4 Servers I use Arcserve 6.5 and on a couple of NT4 Servers I have Backup Exec 8.5 and 8.0....
To tell you the truth I hate both of them....
#1 I hate CA as a Company but loved the Arcserve product when it was under Cheyenne control... then CA destroyed the Support when they took over....
We where forced to go to Backup Exec for Netware when we upgrade all our Netware servers to Netware 5.x because Arcserve for Netware had problems with Netware 5.x for a long time.... Backup Exec for Netware is very flakey and crashes our servers often (Some of them at least 3 times a Month)I can only hope that they can release Version 9 soon and fix the problems they have....
X-)

 

[emerald]

Thanks to everyone for your ample feedback! I never expected to get so many valuable opinions!
In reaction to what pbxman said in his last reply: yes, it seems as if it´s a hit-or-miss ballgame indeed. For my company, it was a definite miss ballgame. If you are interested to see what kind of problems I (and others) had, please have a look at the ArcServe thread &quot;Please help me, I´m losing my mind&quot;. The thread wasn´t even started by me, but caught my attention, because that was exactly how I felt at that time. It turned out that other people had the same unsolvable problems.
The matter is still unresolved, and probably will remain so. I dragged in every expert I could grab, I tried very hard to squeeze any form of support out of ArcServe and my Library manufacturer, but all my attempts were in vain.
I don´t know if Backup Exec is going to be the answer to my prayers, but it seems I´m going to get support from them when I have a problem, which is a lot more than I can say from ArcServe..

 

[Guest_imported]

In response to Pbxman about scalability, this is true that Backup Exec is not as scalable as Arcserve out of the box, however there is the add on product Network Storage Executitive that we are using we have 34 Backup Exec machines with Backup Exec on all managed from the Network Storage Server, this is connected to a SAN. I would say that this product is very scalable and works very well for us. The support that we have had to use has been good. This is used by Microsoft in their Backups, so that feels good when you are on a Microsoft platform. Also I understand that Veritas cooperate a lot with Microsoft which also feels safe when having a 2000 enviroment(as well as some Unix machines)

 

[Guest_imported]

Veritas BackupExec support actually answers the phone, even if you do wait 10-15 minutes. And to the guy who says they are useless and look at this message board, granted, you get level 1 support when you call, and my fiancee's gynocologist could probably provide more insight into technical issues than their level 1, but when I have had a major issue, they have bounced me directly to developers in the past when required to work the problem out. ArcServe, good luck as you sit near your phone for hours waiting for them to call you back. We presently use both products back-to-back within our environment, and both work good for their own purposes, but ArcServe tape database is unreliable at best (so enjoy re-building the database when you really need to get that restore done), and the support is even worse. I do not agree that Arcserve is more flexible - BackupExec provides just as much if not more functionality - you pay for it though via add-on packs.

(Insert random WWF wrestler quote here)

 

[AnalogX]

I'm trying to setup a backup system for home so I was doing research on the net and found this site.

Before I get into a lengthy Rant, there is one Major thing about ArcServe that nobody has been able to properly explain or give me a reasonable solution.

TAPE SERIAL #'S AND SEQUENCING!!!! Here is the scenario, lets say you have tapes with serial number 0001 top 0007 which represents Monday(0001) to Sunday(0007).

You show up to work Thursday(0004) Morning to find out you had a poweroutage and your UPS was drained so the backup for Wednesday(0003) was interrupted. You powerup the Server and guess what happens next!!! ArcServe starts the backup process and starts backing up on Tape if there is a blank on in there, it creates a Wednesday tape and creates serial # (0008), at this point everything goes out of sequence. I know it may be hard to understand from just reading what I've written but believe me it is such an annoying thing.

*** MORE RANT BELO ***

At Work i've been using ArcServe v6.5 for the past 3 Years and ArcServ IT recently. I agree with a few of the other posts.

Backups/Restores actualy work!!! I have even restored an entire Compaq Raid 5 Server from Tape, without even using the Disaster Recovery Option.

However, I've also had my share of troubles. For Example, a call to tech support typicaly goes like this.
I live in Canada so Times are in Eastern Standard Time (EST)

8:00am - I place call to CA Tech Support.

5:30am - by this time I'm the only one left at work sitting like an idiot in the server room waiting for the call

7:00pm - I get a call back from CA Tech Support as usual they dont have an answer to my database related problem, but by this time (11 hours later)I have already found a solution by scouring the web looking for answers in NewsGroups.

8:00pm - Scheduled backup starts.

- ArcServe Tape Database SUCKS!!! About Every 6 Month or so, I either have to reset the Database or RE-Install a fresh copy of ArcServe. We do Daily Differential backups everyday and Full Backups on Weekends, which is a total of 160 GIGs of Data.

- There is a Prune JOB Running that prunes data from database that is older than 7 days (Recommended by CA Tech Support). But this Prune job means nothing the datbase still ends up growing larger than the 1 gig limitation and gets corrupted.

Despite these problems, I still find ArcServe easier to use than Veritas Backup Exec, I dont particulary feel like reading a 900+ Page manual at this time.

I guess Backup Software is a personal decision.