Is a prospective employer allowed to ask what you make in your current position? If they are and they do... what do you say? Can you get fired (assuming they hire you) for lying or "stretching the truth" as to how much you currently make? I stretched by rounding to the nearest 10k (up, obviously) it's not on paper though, just what I told them over the phone when arranging the interview. Is that bad? or should I have lied higher? ;-) BeckahC
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Is a prospective employer allowed to ask....
- Thread starter BeckahC
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MasterRacker
Active member
I wouldn't lie more than that. Lying about anything can come back to bite you. I don't know if it's completely legal but asking for a ballpark of what you're currently making is a common way of opening negotiations. "What are you making now?"......"What are you looking for from us?...." is pretty common.
Remember that applying for a job is not a one way street, it leads to a negotiation. Make sure you know what you want and also what they are offering in detail (and writing). Don't focus solely on pay either. Talk about vacation, PTO, maternity leave, health/dental, 401k, and even severance package. Everything is negotiable.
Example: Our company has a firm policy of 1 week vacation for the first two years then going to 2. 3 weeks after 7 years. Absolutley no exceptions (except I know for a fact that we've hired people that had 3 weeks to start with...)
Negotiate and get as much as possible in writing.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
Remember that applying for a job is not a one way street, it leads to a negotiation. Make sure you know what you want and also what they are offering in detail (and writing). Don't focus solely on pay either. Talk about vacation, PTO, maternity leave, health/dental, 401k, and even severance package. Everything is negotiable.
Example: Our company has a firm policy of 1 week vacation for the first two years then going to 2. 3 weeks after 7 years. Absolutley no exceptions (except I know for a fact that we've hired people that had 3 weeks to start with...)
Negotiate and get as much as possible in writing.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
- Thread starter
- #3
Rounding up slightly is fine but all-out lying has a habit of catching up with you. I find myself searching for a job first time in over 20 years. And I have come across numerous employers asking for your current salary or salary expectations. A lot of them will not list their salary range in the ads either. No one claimed this process was fair.
The statement I have used is "As a {title(s)}, I earn {base pay} which is in line with the current national average for that position. If I am selected for this position, I am confident that {company name} will make a fair offer." I can not take credit for this statement as it was presented in another professional chatgroup long ago. But the statement does help to put the shoe back on the other foot.
The statement I have used is "As a {title(s)}, I earn {base pay} which is in line with the current national average for that position. If I am selected for this position, I am confident that {company name} will make a fair offer." I can not take credit for this statement as it was presented in another professional chatgroup long ago. But the statement does help to put the shoe back on the other foot.
MasterRacker
Active member
To add to rrascal: be aware of what the average is for the position also. Do some research. Go to Google and search on the phrase "Salary Survey". You'll find a ton of them.
Some of these are "botique" surveys put out by consulting firms that inflate the numbers, but those are fairly easy to recognize. Toss those out and look at the others and you will get a fair ballpark of what you're worth. There's a LOT of info out there so be prepared to spend a couple of days absorbing it.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
Some of these are "botique" surveys put out by consulting firms that inflate the numbers, but those are fairly easy to recognize. Toss those out and look at the others and you will get a fair ballpark of what you're worth. There's a LOT of info out there so be prepared to spend a couple of days absorbing it.
Jeff
I haven't lost my mind - I know it's backed up on tape somewhere ....
- Thread starter
- #6
Thanks rrascal and MasterRacker! The interview went well and salary issues were not raised, I guess the "Scout" just wanted to get a feel for what I was making now to see if I would fit in in whatever they told him they wanted to pay... It's exhausting getting interviewed by 3 people at once! One rests, and the next starts - like being on Jeopardy without the commercials! X-) BeckahC
I am not aware of employers having any right to ask you your salary. They ask for several reasons: to help themselves pick a negotiating position, to confirm that their ranges are aligned with the market place, and to intimidate the job seeker either to strengthen their negotiating position or just because they are not emotionally mature). You always have the right not to disclose information about yourself, but if you lie about it in writing they can fire you for it. I always opt for letting some one know it's none of their business rather than lying.
There are some great books on negotiation ("Getting to Yes" is a classic). The best approach seems to be to always state a range, rather than a point estimate, and mention that where you fall within that range depending on benefits. Remember (and it doesn't hurt to remind your interviewer that there are some companies with very rich benefits out there such as dollar-to-dollar matching on a 401k, full family medical and dental, on-site day care, full tuition reimbursement, training programs, etc. I've used the following:
1. (slightly surprised and offended look): "I never disclose my salary." Why are you asking?
2. "I'm in the A to C range. I would need B to D to take this position, depending on benefits. Would you like to discuss benefits first?"
3. "I'm in the market range for this title, B to D. What is your company's range? Does your HR dept base the range on market surveys?"
4. "I'm looking for something in the range of B to D. Does that work for you?" (this works best at the very beginning of a conversation, before they ask my salary).
You need to see yourself as an equal in the negotiating process. If you use the right tone, these questions will make you seem like a professional who is savvy about the job market and has self-confidence and realistic expectations, rather than a pushy, nosy, or naive wanna-be. One other word about ranges, I never state the bottom of the range as below what I'll feel grateful to go to work for each morning. It's too tough for me to show up for a job if I'm not feeling gratitude.
There are some great books on negotiation ("Getting to Yes" is a classic). The best approach seems to be to always state a range, rather than a point estimate, and mention that where you fall within that range depending on benefits. Remember (and it doesn't hurt to remind your interviewer that there are some companies with very rich benefits out there such as dollar-to-dollar matching on a 401k, full family medical and dental, on-site day care, full tuition reimbursement, training programs, etc. I've used the following:
1. (slightly surprised and offended look): "I never disclose my salary." Why are you asking?
2. "I'm in the A to C range. I would need B to D to take this position, depending on benefits. Would you like to discuss benefits first?"
3. "I'm in the market range for this title, B to D. What is your company's range? Does your HR dept base the range on market surveys?"
4. "I'm looking for something in the range of B to D. Does that work for you?" (this works best at the very beginning of a conversation, before they ask my salary).
You need to see yourself as an equal in the negotiating process. If you use the right tone, these questions will make you seem like a professional who is savvy about the job market and has self-confidence and realistic expectations, rather than a pushy, nosy, or naive wanna-be. One other word about ranges, I never state the bottom of the range as below what I'll feel grateful to go to work for each morning. It's too tough for me to show up for a job if I'm not feeling gratitude.
- Thread starter
- #8
Actually - salary never came up at the interview... the recruiter I spoke with asked, I rounded up to the nearest 10K (which is still way low for my position anywhere else). The interview went well, but I have discussed it with my Husband and have decided not to take it. I would be burnt out within 6 months, and no amount of $$$ should be worth my health and mental well being. It would be nice, however, if they asked me back for a 2nd interview and I had to turn them down - what a morale booster! ;-)
The recruiter asked me a lot of questions I was not comfortable with. It seemed like he was speaking down to me, probably because of my lack of a degree. Once I started talking "over his head" he suddenly started seeming interested... I think that this experience has really opened my eyes. I'm used to talking tech in a "dummied down" user friendly kind of way and usually when I start in on the techno-talk I get that "glazed over" kind of look and I lose them...
Anyway, back to the subject... I didn't ask what the salary was like and they didn't bring up $$ at all - that would be a first interview no-no, I guess. The recruiter probably filled them in on what he got from me, so who knows if it affected my chances? I didn't have to fill out any paperwork, so all they had in writing was my resume - no salaries on there. I guess if I rounded verbally that's ok... BeckahC
The recruiter asked me a lot of questions I was not comfortable with. It seemed like he was speaking down to me, probably because of my lack of a degree. Once I started talking "over his head" he suddenly started seeming interested... I think that this experience has really opened my eyes. I'm used to talking tech in a "dummied down" user friendly kind of way and usually when I start in on the techno-talk I get that "glazed over" kind of look and I lose them...
Anyway, back to the subject... I didn't ask what the salary was like and they didn't bring up $$ at all - that would be a first interview no-no, I guess. The recruiter probably filled them in on what he got from me, so who knows if it affected my chances? I didn't have to fill out any paperwork, so all they had in writing was my resume - no salaries on there. I guess if I rounded verbally that's ok... BeckahC
I always try to get a salary range before I agree to an in-person interview. I don't like to waste my time. Especially with recruiters who may only be trying to get names into their database, I ask if there is a specific position they are trying to fill and what is the title and salary range. I'd be interested in hearing what other people do...
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- Thread starter
- #10
Technically - I had an "in" on this... a friend of mine mentioned the job to me and told me the salary range - didn't go to in detail as to what I'd be doing, but did tell me that.
When I was job hunting, I usually did try to find out when I was scheduling interviews, but I don't think it's right to ask what it pays at the first interview...(I think I may have at a few when I was first starting out and didn't know what I was doing
) But I do like to get an idea of it. The company I interviewed with doesn't arrange the interview themselves... they have their own recruiters. (If I were single, I'd jump at the chance to have this job, but right now, I'd like a job where I can still get home to cook dinner before it's time to get to sleep... X-)) BeckahC
When I was job hunting, I usually did try to find out when I was scheduling interviews, but I don't think it's right to ask what it pays at the first interview...(I think I may have at a few when I was first starting out and didn't know what I was doing
) But I do like to get an idea of it. The company I interviewed with doesn't arrange the interview themselves... they have their own recruiters. (If I were single, I'd jump at the chance to have this job, but right now, I'd like a job where I can still get home to cook dinner before it's time to get to sleep... X-)) BeckahC- Thread starter
- #12
That's a good and bad idea -
If you tell them what you hope to earn from the position, and they were planning on paying you more, you can probably bet that you will be paid what you asked for, and not the greater amount.
On the other hand, the same kind of thing can happen when you tell them how much you currently earn - they'll figure they can get away with paying you just a bit more than you were earning previously... BeckahC
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
If you tell them what you hope to earn from the position, and they were planning on paying you more, you can probably bet that you will be paid what you asked for, and not the greater amount.
On the other hand, the same kind of thing can happen when you tell them how much you currently earn - they'll figure they can get away with paying you just a bit more than you were earning previously... BeckahC
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