IPO Expansion over old Norte4l fiber extenders 15

[OldMcDonald]

We have an existing IPO 500v2 9.1 in one building on a large campus using 9508 sets, works great, we love it. All other building on the campus are working off an Nortel MICS ( still reliable as a work horse no issues ).

The Nortel extends it's DS signals to the remote buildings via several MCK fiber extenders to several 0x16 for the DS T7316e handsets. This all works just fine but time for an upgrade to the IPO campus wide.

Here is the issue. The campus has fiber feeds underground to connect all the buildings but not copper from the existing IPO to the Nortel site so we can not run DS from the IPO to the other buildings.

Can I extend the IPO DS via a fiber extender or reuse the MCK fiber extenders with Rj45 adapters at each end? The fiber MCK extenders are just relays is there a product that can relay or repeat the IPO signal to the other buildings then to IPO DS 30 expansion modules so we can use 9508 handsets?

We considered 9608 sets with POE for each handset but the internet and network IT is very unreliable due to the area we are in. We want to keep Voice separated from Data. All the handsets on both the IPO and Nortel have a history of almost 100% uptime so I know the users would not stand for intermittent handse3t outages.

Overall the average number of handsets at each campus building is about 15 so about a total on the campus of 80 handsets.

The existing underground conduits are full so there is no space to pull copper feeds.

Any suggestions or work arounds? Many thanks!

 

[Nortel4Ever]

A couple of thoughts...
I have set up a number of sites using MCK devices during my many years as a Nortel tech. I recall that part of the initialization process for MCK was to define what brand of KSU was being connected as the MCK was a universal device and not just made to work with Nortel. You would have to experiment to see if one of the other non-Nortel settings would work. Unfortunately this would be a trial and error scenario.
Beyond that my only other thought is to network multiple IPO 500V2s using SCN and voice networking licenses. This would provide you with seamless dialing across the campus and centralized VM with the appropriate licensing at each IPO node.

 

[snowman50]

SCN would be expensive if you have only 15 phones at each campus.
Depending on how many campus you have.

Are the Nortel phones on each campus using cat5 cables or standard telephony cable.

I was thinking if there are cat5 for the Nortel phones you could put in cheap data switches for the phones and use the fibres to connect back to the ipo via a data switch

Maybe you have enough spare cat5 in the comms cab to use the ip phones and only have to re wire a few points.

This way they are still separate from the existing data network.

We have done this in a few schools who used copper through out and we then swapped over to spare cat 5 cables nearby the existing phone points
Rewired some that didn’t have any spare data points.

We kept the phones completely separate from the data network and labled well so as someone would not connect to the phones data switches.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Thank you guys I'm making a list of your suggestions I'm also going to double-check the conduits to see if it's at any way possible for me to squeeze in 100 pair copper feed between the two campus buildings.

There are three campus buildings involved they're actually not very far from each other.

Here's a question I have for you I've been looking at all sorts of legacy Media adapters.

There are a variety of media converters fiber to land. The mck extenders use a multimode fiber feed which is currently already in place.

Any thoughts on using a media converter to send the IPOs signal via the mck extenders over a media converter and then back to a lan connection to the DS module on the other end?

IPO Expansion RJ45 to Media converter to MM fiber to MCK extender or direct to fiber then back again at destination to DS 30 IPO expansion module.

Did this make sense? I'm sending/boosting the DS signal to a remote DS module which provides it's own power for the handsets via copper. Basically the same way the to Nortel is currently set up?

If we had lots of funds available I would just run be underground feeds but money is limited these days

 

[sizbut]

Extending the cable to the expansion cables just won't work - as many in the past have discovered that cable is very sensitive and the general rule is "use the cable supplied, no others". It may be an RJ45 connector at each end, but it isn't Ethernet that is being sent through the cable.

Unfortunately due to the rise of IP, the nearest Avaya have come to supporting extenders are the Phybridge products for IP phones.

Stuck in a never ending cycle of file copying.

 

[kwing112000]

honestly the best way to do this would be to use IP phones. you already have the fiber between the sites. just put POE switches on the fiber and add IP phones. there is no way to make DS modules work over fiber. Even if you got the MCK to work you would end up with all kinds of problems.

Kevin Wing
ACSS Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Communications
ACS- Implement IP Office
ACA- Implement IP Office
Vive Communications

 

[jose1000]

I agree with kwing. Use the fiber, install new poe switches and ip phones.

 

[Nortel4Ever]

Yes, I agree with kwing, you may spend a lot of time with the MCKs with no positive outcome.

 

[qtelcom]

Yes, I agree with Kwing, simple and it'll work. I love my DS phone customers and they love me, but I would never try a DS expansion beyond the included cable.

 

[IPGuru]

As others have said
the IPO expansion connections are not any standard protocol, they are most definitely not IP
They are a propitiatory 2MB signal + additional control signals (all 8 wires are used + screen is also essential for reliable operation) no form of extender will work (unless you design your own from the ground up & even that may not be reliable enough)

if you need digital/Analog extns remote from the IPO & ATA's are not sufficient then the only real solution is another IPO connected as part of a SCN (not a bad option if part of a campus)


Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

ACSS

 

[OldMcDonald]

Thanks for an the feedback and help

Nortel4ever I have a question. Are there switches on the MCK modules that allow for changes and calibration?

Also the fiber connectors at the end of the fiber reel seems different unlike the ST plug. Do you know what the ends of the modular fiber reel is thanks.

 

[OldMcDonald]

For an experiment. I connected a multimode fiber to LAN Media converter at the IPO end and the Expansion just using a 3 foot fiber ST fiber patch cord for the test.

The expansion module did not come up. It must not be sending or receding the DS Singhal like the MCK sends it.

 

[critchey]

As stated before those expansion modules are a completely different beast they are not just "IP" connections. Not only do the cables need to be shielded but they must be EXACTLY 2meters long. My understanding is the length can effect the timing and cause it not work.

The truth is just an excuse for lack of imagination.

 

[kwing112000]

In the past we have seen DS modules connected with regular Cat5 cords right at the system have very strange problems. changed them back to the Avaya supplied cables and the problems went away.

Kevin Wing
ACSS Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) Communications
ACS- Implement IP Office
ACA- Implement IP Office
Vive Communications

 

[IPGuru]

In the past we have seen DS modules connected with regular Cat5 cords right at the system have very strange problems. changed them back to the Avaya supplied cables and the problems went away.

yep they look like they work but reliability is non existent, they absolutely MUST be 1M shielded (the 4 port expansion module will support 2M).



Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

ACSS

 

[pccsipoffice]

I disagree with kwing.
I hear you saying cost is a concern. If your looking to avoid running Ethernet cable to existing phone locations.
(keeping the phones off the data network) Call Phybridge. I am sure they can help you.

http://WWW.MC-COMMUNICATIONS.NET

 

[OldMcDonald]

Thank you all for your help.

Could someone explain what Phybridge would provide as a product for the IPO please? I went to they're website but they have several products.

Thank you.

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Phybridge PoLRE allows IP phones over Cat-3 cabling. The concept for your application is to use the fiber between sites to feed the Phybridge and use the existing station cabling for the phones. This may or may not be cheaper than an IP 500 at each site, with Networking licenses, and digital cards to use 9508 telephones on the existing station cabling.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Ok I got it and yes I am going with the suggestion to run this over my private fiber Network.

They have faxes, alarms and gate control intercom. With the Nortel I just used ATAs and got analog dial tone at the remote sites.

Do you have a suggestion for analog at the tennis sites with IPO.

 

[TouchToneTommy]

ATAs will register as a 3rd Party SIP Endpoint. Do NOT run alarms through a PBX.