Importing graphics with transparency data 1

[OsakaWebbie]

What file types can I use to get graphics into PageMaker 7.0 with a transparent background? I'm starting with vector graphics data in PaintShop Pro 7, which can export almost any common file format (both vector and raster types). Searching the web I saw mention of EPS for this purpose, but when I tried that, not only was it a HUGE file that looked lousy, but the background was still being shown as solid! I'm stumped, and I need an answer quickly, as I'm trying to get a brochure to a print shop in the next two days if possible. Thanks for any help!

 

[Eggles]

You need a TIF with a clipping path. EPS will work too - don't worry about the apparent solid background - it's an artifact - it's the TIF preview that you are viewing, and it should print OK on a postscript printer. A trick which might work for viewing purposes is to rotate the image by the smallest fraction of a degree (0.01 I think).

 

[OsakaWebbie]

I have seen "clipping paths" mentioned before - what are they, and if I can figure out how to make one in PaintShop Pro 7J (I'll have to figure out what "clipping path" is called in Japanese), can it describe background pieces that are surrounded by graphic (e.g. the middle of the letter "o&quot, or just a single path around the outside?

And you say, "...it should print OK on a postscript printer," but I don't have a PostScript printer - is that a problem? I use an Epson PM-950C inkjet, an Epson LP-8100 laser, and will be starting to also take jobs to a print shop (I have no idea how that works as far as printer driver compatibility).

 

[BionicJohn]

Hi, OsakaWebbie,

I can't speak for PSP, personally I'd use Photoshop.

See here:

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?50@181.dqbPamSyQaq.148625@.ef64606/0

for how to do it.

Iechyd da! John
19:33 20/05/2003 BST

 

[Eggles]

Osakawebbie (good name!)

I don't think clipping paths are supported in PSP. You will need to step up a bit from that level for print work (PSP is designed primarily for preparing graphics for the web).

Clipping paths are a way of removing the background (and even the middle in a letter 'O') from an image and retaining transparency where the background was. It is created using a variety of methods in Photoshop, but the BEST tool for it is the Pen Tool, which takes a bit of practice but the results are worth it - clean smooth edges around the subject for one.

I can direct you to some tutorials on clipping paths, but first you need to get a program that supports them.

Postscript printers can print EPS graphics, but non-postscript cannot - they can only print the low-resolution TIF 'preview' that can be created when you save the image. So in your case, stick to TIFs, and these also support clipping paths, and can be printed well on a non-PS printer. If you take your jobs to a print shop, the TIF images must also be converted to CMYK format (4 colour process) but you can leave them as RGB for printing to a desktop non-PS printer. Resolution for outside printing should be 300dpi for the TIFs but they can be 150-200dpi for a desktop printer.

One final word - if you are outsourcing the printing of your Pagemaker files, see if you can find out the type of printer they will be using (particularly the PPD - and use it when you set up your document) so that you don't get text reflow when the job is printed.

And another comment - you cannot get vector graphics out of PSP - it is a raster-based program.

 

[OsakaWebbie]

> but the BEST tool for it is the Pen Tool, which takes a bit of practice but the results are worth it...

Sounds tedious, though. If one already has a graphic with transparency, it seems to me that a "draw clipping path at opaque/transparent boundries" tool would be very handy, but what do I know? ;-)

> Resolution for outside printing should be 300dpi...

Thank you for that tip. I had been wondering what resolution to use when sending something out (I have to start specifying resolution very early in the process - in PageMaker's document settings). I know the resolution of my printers, but I have had to think of print shops as a wildcard.

> you cannot get vector graphics out of PSP - it is a raster-based program.

It's not that simple - you can build both raster and vector layers in PSP, and they are maintained as such. You can also save the graphics as a Photoshop file (*.psd), and when I did that on a vector-based logo with a fair amount of complexity, the resulting PSD file was only 96KB, so I think at least in that format it is outputing the data as vector (the canvas I was working on was 1120x598 pixels - I'm pretty sure it can't render that much raster data in 96KB). It can save in about 20 other file formats as well - most I'm sure are raster, but a few I don't know.

After experimenting with saving as PSD, I discovered that I have a copy of Photoshop Elements on my PC (file properties lists the version as 1.0.128.0), but it's asking for a serial number before it will let me use it. It probably came with some other program, but I have no idea which one. Some possiblities are: Adobe Premiere 6.5, PageMaker 7.0, DVDit! PE, or the computer itself, a Sony VAIO PCV-RX55 designed for video and came with a bunch of bundled software (I doubt that Office 2000 Premium or PaintShop Pro would bundle it - Adobe is the competition!). Anyone know whether any of the above list might be the source of my Elements installation? I can't find a mention of it in any of the above software's manuals. And does anyone know if it can do the clipping path thing? (I don't know what "clipping path" is called in Japanese, so it will be hard to look for in the User's Guide.)

 

[Eggles]

Re: If one already has a graphic with transparency, it seems to me that a "draw clipping path at opaque/transparent boundries" tool would be very handy

Yes, but this is assuming you already have that opaque/transparent boundary. And this is where the Pen Tool comes in so handy. Not only does it allow you to separate the subject from the backgropund, it gives a clean edge to that boundary. With something like the 'magic wand' it can select pixels of the same colour, but does not give a sharp edge - it follows the individual pixels. so you get a jagged edge.

I am not going to argue regarding whether your PSP file saved as a PSD still in fact contains vector data. I know the newest version of PS is capable of that, but as to whether PSP -> PSD can do so....?? One way to check - increase the dimensions of the PSD file, zoom in close and see if pixels become visible. If they do, it's raster.

Re your Photoshop Elements - possibly it came with Pagemaker or may be even the Premiere (I got Photoshop Limited Edition - the forerunner of Elements - with my version of PM6.5 some time ago). Check your PM CD and see if you can find it there. It may even take the same serial number as PM. As to whether it can do clipping paths - I don't know. Try asking on the Photoshop forum here.

 

[Eggles]

Another good place to try with PS elements questions is the Graphics Software forum at About.com:

http://forums.about.com/ab-graphicssoft/start

 

[OsakaWebbie]

In my case I'm usually wanting the transparency around items that already have borders defined - either vector graphics I created myself in PSP or vector clip art, of which most of mine is WMF format - it becomes raster when I import it (at a resolution I choose), but it still is made up of separate parts which are not rectangular, and there is definitely a background that has no graphic (and I always choose a high enough resolution that bordering at the pixel level would not be a problem for me). So having to use a pen tool would just consume extra time. But if someone was slicing around a person in a photo or something, your point is well taken.

I can't check how PS would see the PSD file I can create, so I don't know how it would be treated there, but opening it back in PSP it becomes a single layer, which is raster. But if it's stored as raster, the compression algorithm is pretty impressive to store that size of raster image in less than 100KB. Anyway, what I care about is that the PSP file does preserve the vector data - contrary to the name PaintShop, I think it does a pretty good job at making vector graphics, as well as of course raster "paint" stuff. Its weak area is text editing and flow control - the method for editing text is cumbersome, and it doesn't even wrap lines! But overall I'm happy with it. I tried using Photoshop once, and it was extremely counterintuitive for me - I couldn't figure out how to do even the most basic things. Perhaps my brain is wired strangely...

Thanks for the thoughts on PS Elements. I tried my PageMaker SN, but it didn't take it. I'll try asking the Photoshop forum about that and the clipping path.

 

[DonLo]

I know this is an old thread, but I was just struggling with this same question, and this thread helped me find a remarkably easy solution.

I'm using Photoshop 6.0 and Pagemaker 7.0 on a PC. The mention of "clipping paths" in the thread sent me to the Photoshop help file, where I found that under the Help menu is an option "Export Transparent Image..." It launches a short wizard which does exactly what Osakawebbie wants to do - easily create a clipping path.

I hope this helps others - and thanks for the tip!

 

[Dinobrago]

DonLo's post does the trick. It actually is a wizard that take you through defining a clipping path and saving the resulting file as an EPS file. Worked like a charm.

d-