ICND vs CCNA .. btw HI! 4

[Synonix]

Hey guys,

i haven't really spoken on these forums yet, but i have been reading a lot on what you guys have to say about issues ppl are having and you are all awesome but I'm trying the get my CCNA via ICND1/2 exams. Im pretty sure this is the right route but i just want another opinion. Im currently cracking down on a PDF version of ICND1 by ciscopress its not pirated ...i swear....

but it seems really good and ive learned ALOT from it so far.

i also have a ...non pirated... version of nuggets CCNA that i didnt look at yet but im assuming it covers the whole CCNA vs my ciscopress only providing for the ICND1.

Which would be better to invest time into?


thanks a BUNCH!

 

[Synonix]

So its really a matter of if I wanted to use serial or CAT5 t1 crossover cable to make the 2 routers communicate.

And I will be looking into another router maybe not another 400 dollar one though, thats a little rough.

so I'll have 2 routers and 2 switches. That works. I'll look into the 3640's maczen was posting about.

Alrighty thnx!

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Synonix,

You really should have 3 routers, the 1841 is great, add a 3640 and maybe a 2610XM and get yourself a few WIC-1ts or WIC-2ts with the DTE/DCE cables to go with your T1 DSU/CSU card. Having 3 different routers will also help you get a feel for different Cisco equipment!

You will see a few differences between setting up the serial link with the T1/RJ45 and DTE/DCE cables - have them both and you will be ready for a lot more!!!

Make sure you read the blog I posted about a CCNA lab - great information that will help you pick the right pieces.


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[maczen]

Syn,
I read a post that claimed it to be possible to convert the 3550 SI to an EI.. Personally, I would recommend just buying an EI when you buy a 3550. You will eventually need access to the EI when you reach that part of your CCNP studies. That said, I would not do so now. You will not be to that point for quite some time and the prices will most assuredly drop by then. I would also refrain from investing in an 1841 router at the moment as well. The idea is to have access to all of the areas of study that you will need and of course to spend the least amount of money.

The 1841 is an Integrated Services Router (ISR). There are more, less expensive, options for an ISR such as the 871 or even the 851 models. Any router with an 8 in the third digit to the right... i.e. x8xx is an ISR. If you can get an 1841 for $400 then perhaps go for it but take into account that for $400 you can have a pair of maxed out 3640's and a pair of 2610XM's if you play your cards right.. and keep a close eye on eBay. That is FOUR routers as opposed to ONE!

For CCNA studies you could get away with two good routers ie. 3640's or 26xxXM's (2610XM, 2620XM, 2621XM et. al.) and one inexpensive router to act as your access server. This is just one design but I will try to elaborate on the possibilities here and allow you to reach your own decision.

The two good routers have been covered which leaves you with the inexpensive router that will act as your Frame Relay Switch. Any 2500 series router with two serial ports will suffice and generally run under $25. This is probably your best bet and definitely your least expensive. However, as your lab matures you will inevitably decide that you want more functionality as well as the ability to create more sophisticated topologies. These topologies will include more routers. You will see CCNP topologies with four or five routers and the CCIE topology that I referenced the other day in this forum has eight routers plus the FR Switch. You will need a router acting as an FR (Frame-Relay) Switch that has more than two serial interfaces. That is where your next decision will be based.

Two options present themselves.. One is a non-modular router such as the 2522 that has 8 serial interfaces (The 2520 has 4).. There are a few more like this model.. The problem is.. they are generally expensive although I have seen them go on eBay for under $150.. (Usually closer to $200). Option B is to purchase another modular router that supports the network module that you will need to accomodate this setup. For instance, you can buy a non-XM 2610 for under $50 then add either an NM-4A/S or an NM-8A/S dependant on the toplogy that you will need. There are several advantages to this design.

One, later on if you decide to VPN to this device from the internet (you never know where you will be tech-wise a year from now) you will not want to utilize the 25xx method so option B would have been the better choice. Second, if the router dies on you at least with option B you still have a good 4A/S or 8A/S card. With the 25xx you lose everything. Third, a 2610 and an NM-4A/S will be less expensive then a 2520.. normally.. That said, you can see which direction I prefer.

In regard to serial versus the CSU/DSU method.. That is up to you. I personally do both but I stick with serial for all of my FR stuff. It really doesn't matter.. DTE to DCE back to back cables (1ft) run around $3 on eBay. You can buy a roll of Cat5e and terminate your own. Again, I do both and both provide learning experiences.

These are some things that I would recommend you look at in regard to your lab..

ROUTER MODELS:
*3640, 3620
2610, 2611, 2612, 2620, 2621, 2650, 2651, 2691
SAME *26xxXM
1720, 1721
1760
*851, *871, *851W, *871W
2501, 2503
2520 - 2523

You can look at one ISR such as the 851W and allow it to provide internet connectivity to your home and actually see it in action.. Pretty nice. You would only want/need one ISR for lab. I placed an "*" beside my personal recommendations but take into account that for CCNA you could get away with a pair of 2610's and a 2501 and perform the majority of CCNA related tasks with the exception of SDM (Security Device Manager) functions.. (There is a free download on the Cisco site for both SDM as well as the SDM Sales Demo which will allow you to practice with SDM without a router. Nice!!!

Now let's talk about switches.. It will be quite some time before you reach the switching portion of the CCNP. Until then try to purchase switches that will be useful then but less expensive than the 3550. The 2950's come to mind. I own three 2950 switches (two are EI models but really only need one EI)... You can buy a 2950 for around $100 after shipping...

SWITCHES:
Any 2950 x3

So let us take a look at an awesome under $1500 lab for CCNA/CCNP!!!

2x 3640 routers with 128/32 no face plate ($230)
1x 2620XM router ($150)
3x 2950 switches ($330)
1x NM-4A/S ($70)
2x NM-1E2W ($100)
2x WIC-1T ($60)
2x Back to Back Cables 1ft ($10)
1x Skeletek C Model Rack 20U (Under $150)
Cat5e crossover and patch cables... ($10)
Total: $1110

This is just one suggestion and they actually have a similar setup on eBay right now for $1395! I actually intentionally rounded some of these items up but you will most likely spend around $100 less than what I have mentioned. You can spend a lot less than that on a rack as well. Just perform a search for "2 post rack" on eBay. (Remmeber, you will need a 4 post or that crazy looking Skeletek rack on the Dantak website if you want to buy yourself a server later and mount it as well. Just food for thought.

Since we are already on this topic I will mention a few other plausible goodies for your lab. Search for Managed switch, switched pdu, power ethernet controller.. These will find you some nice toys.. Also, you may wish to invest in a UPS. There is another post here discussing Radius options that discusses servers in depth.. Have fun!

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Billy,

The only trouble with the 800 routers is that they do not have WIC slots like the 1841.

If he is looking down the road towards CCNP then the 1841 would be a good investment, like Wendell Odom says in his CCNA lab blog the 1841 is the one most likly to be able to do IOS 12.5 when it comes out - something that will help future proof the lab!!

I agree- he only needs 1 1841 now, then he could get a 3640 and a 2610XM or even a 2610, Odom makes a good point about the 2610 vs the 2500 - again if palnning on using the lab for CCNP.

Read the blog, ask question and use Google for research - best way to learn what you want to do for a lab!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[maczen]

Good point about 12.5... Any word on when or requirements??? I have not picked up on anything yet..

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[maczen]

In regard to 12.5.. I referenced the 1720 and 1721 model. It looks as if these will run 12.5 main for sure...


"Q. With the introduction of the Cisco 1800 Series, what are the plans for the current Cisco 1700 Series Modular Access Routers?
A. The Cisco 1700 Series will reach end of sale on March 27, 2006. New feature development for the Cisco 1700 Series will be available through Cisco IOS Software Release 12.4T with bug-fix support through Cisco IOS Software Release 12.5 Mainline. For more details on the Cisco 1700 Series end of sale, please refer to:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/col.../prod_end-of-life_notice0900aecd8044473f.html

"

MORE INFO COMPARING THE 1721 AND 1841...
"Q. How does the Cisco 1841 router compare to the Cisco 1721 router that is the current Cisco 1700 Series data-only version?
A. The Cisco 1841 router provides significant additional value compared to the Cisco 1721 router by offering more than a five-fold performance increase. It also integrates hardware-based encryption that can be enabled with an optional Cisco IOS Software security image while simultaneously supporting multiple services such as security, data, and QoS, and providing increased slot performance and density. Also, more than 30 existing Cisco 1700 Series WICs and multiflex trunk interface cards (voice WICs [VWICs]) (for data only) are supported. Further, both of the modular slots on the Cisco 1841 router are HWIC slots that offer greater speeds and higher port density."

~This is from the following site:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps5853/prod_qas0900aecd80181208.html

If he can find an 1841 for $400 or less then good but I would just recommend against spending a mint on a router that will be MUCH less expensive later on down the road when he needs it. The above mentioned routers will be good for a LOOOOONG time! Wouldn't you agree CiscoG? It's just that you could get 4 to 5 of the 1721's for the cost of 1x 1841!



B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

Woah... been studying most of the day haven't checked the responses... thanks to all of you! I'll give you an update on what I'm doing after I absorb all the info.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Billy,

Since the 1720/21 reached end of sale on March 27, 2006, and the 1841 is still going strong you could even say that the 1841 might be around longer (as far as new IOS is concerned) then anything done for the 1720/21.

Now, since the 1720s go for about $50 on Ebay and the 1841 goes for about $600 I could not even compare these 2 routers.

At $50, I would pickup a 1720 without much thought - hey another router to play with, however at $600 for a 1841 - that would be for the reason that I am getting a "new" router that is still in the mainstream at Cisco and could be for some time. Having a 1841 to future proof your rack a little would be a good investment for 1 router in the mix.

Yes, the 1841 like all Cisco routers will be cheaper next week/month/year, just like the price on 2500s, 2600s, 1700s and so on drops every year! If it were me and I had the extra money, I would get a 1841, but not if it ment that I could not get 2 other routers and several switches, the key is that you need 3 routers and 3 switches to get the most out of the lab.

If I was going to look at a 1700, I would look at a 1760, they go for about $120 on Ebay, they have several WIC slots and it can be rack mounted!!

Good luck!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[lerdalt]

I think you bring up another good point. Think about longevity of your equipment with what certs you might do. Are you just going to do CCNA? Probably don't need to put quite as much investment in equipment that will be around for awhile or the features.

CCNP...might need to think about putting a little more money in.

CCIE...even more.

When I did my labs, I used whatever I could get my hands on from spare equipment at work. Have a pile of 2500's sitting around so I utilized them as best I could. Even had a couple 4500's sitting around that I made use out of.

Moving into the CCNP, I still was able to use the 2500's and the 4500 (4500 was my frame-relay switch because it had 4 serial ports on it), and had some spare 2800 routers, and a couple of 2950 switches.

The CCIP, I got my hands on a couple of mc3810's. Specifically for the FXS interfaces, and was setting up some analog calls across a T1 to play with QoS options. I needed something that could do BGP as well, so I took home a couple of 2800's for a few nights.

Now that I'm trying to decide what to do next, I know I'm going to need some beefier equipment. Been working on collecting odds and ends of things as I see them pop up, or get pulled from service. I am lucky though that we have some spare equipment at work, that as long as nothing breaks, I have full use of. Plus I do get to work with some pretty hefty configurations/devices on the live network.

 

[maczen]

That's awesome Lerdalt.. I think that both you and CiscoG make a good point. Spend what you can to get the three best routers and switches possible. You make another good point in regard to the direction of certifications.

I see the 1760 in a ton of Voice labs and can only assume this is due to the modules available for this model.

The 3640's are great for Security, Wireless, Voice and CCNP.

I see the 2600 XM series in everything you can think of!

ISR's are a great option for CCNP and Security! Cards for the x8xx models seem to be MUCH more expensive.

I hope this helps!

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

Just got 1 2950 for 70 bucks, 1 of many pieces I'm still searching around for.

 

[Synonix]

I decided that I can probably find all the pieces for a great lab myself than to let some bundle do it for me. It might take longer to put together, but if it's cheaper then I don't really care.

I already can't wait for this switch to come in!

 

[CharlieBoi08]

Can anyone tell me if a 3500 Series WS-C3548-XL-EN 48 Port Switch would be a good buy for CCNA, would it be good for CCNP as well?

Can get this for £60.

Thanks.

 

[lerdalt]

eh...2950 would be better. the 3500xl series does not do Rapid Spanning-tree. It's an OK switch IMO. There are just enough things on it that are different from the 2950's though that I'm sure you could still get through the CCNA, but not the CCNP.

 

[burtsbees]

And start your own thread...no piggy-backing...

Burt

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Burt,

You tell him!!!

This thread is long enough as it is

But seriously CharlieBoi08, when you have a NEW question and are not adding to Synonix's orginal post - just create a new post!!!

Welcome to the Cisco Certification area!!!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Synonix]

I got all I need for now from this thread and then some... like a lot of some haha, I'm done posting until I get all my equipment, thanks

 

[burtsbees]

The pain meds make me crabby...

Burt

 

[maczen]

No.. Not you Burt! LoL

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[burtsbees]

Look, Billy...why don't you just shut the...LOL!
J/k

Burt