ICND vs CCNA .. btw HI! 4

[Synonix]

Hey guys,

i haven't really spoken on these forums yet, but i have been reading a lot on what you guys have to say about issues ppl are having and you are all awesome but I'm trying the get my CCNA via ICND1/2 exams. Im pretty sure this is the right route but i just want another opinion. Im currently cracking down on a PDF version of ICND1 by ciscopress its not pirated ...i swear....

but it seems really good and ive learned ALOT from it so far.

i also have a ...non pirated... version of nuggets CCNA that i didnt look at yet but im assuming it covers the whole CCNA vs my ciscopress only providing for the ICND1.

Which would be better to invest time into?


thanks a BUNCH!

 

[lerdalt]

I think many of us would recommend one more book in addition to what you already have. The CCNA book by Todd Lammle is highly recommended by many.

I don't think it's necessarily as easy to say spend more time in one vs. another. Some of it will all depend on what kind of learner you are. Do you need more lecture type stuff? Then probably focus more on the nuggets. Learn by just reading...then read. Of course hands on is always beneficial no matter what. I'd suggest trying to get your hands on a couple of routers so you can become familiar with the CLI and understand how to navigate the device.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Synonix,

I am with lerdalt, I think the Sybex CCNA Study Guide by Todd Lammle is the best to go with your Cisco Press title, just study the parts based on the Cisco break down of the test - you will need to understand it all anyway!! It is always best to have several different sources of information!!

Same for the CBT Nuggets, sometimes it is easier when you see the big picture of the whole CCNA and seeing and hearing a guy tell you a subject can help when you get tired of reading about it, sometimes seeing it or hearing a little differently helps you to understand it.

And take the blinders off with ICND and CCNA - you will need to understand it ALL when you do both exams - do not worry if you learn a little too much while studing for one vs the other

And as lerdalt said - HANDS ON - get a few routers and switches on Ebay and practice, practice and do more practice - HANDS ON - read about it and then DO IT ON YOUR LAB RACK!!!!

Read the blog on setting up a CCNA Lab by Wendell Odom CCIE and Cisco author at Networkworld -

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/24916

Seems he is working on a CCNA Sim for Cisco Press due out 10-24-2008 - should be interesting but practice with REAL Cisco routers and switches is BEST!!!!!

Good luck!




E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[maczen]

I just made this post in another thread but it is one of those that can be copied around as it provides some good insight into study aides...

1. CiscoPress Material
It could be argued that everything you need is available right here. These are the books that I used. I have not had the opportunity to demo the Video Mentor set but they come highly recommended by many.

http://www.ciscopress.com/markets/detail.asp?st=44711

2. CBTNuggets Videos
These are the videos that I used. It was well worth the money. The CCNA set is divided by ICND1 & ICND2 making it easy to keep the material separated. Jeremy Ciaora is one of the best instructors that I have heard (Doubtfully as good as CiscoGuy, Burt or Lerdalt but still good)!

http://www.cbtnuggets.com

3. Lammle
I own this book and absolutely love it. It is especially great when you come to a concept in the CiscoPress series and get stumped as it provides a different light on the subject in most cases. With this book you get the book in Adobe PDF format which makes it very easy to search. You also receive access to the lammle forum which is.. well.. so so in my opinion.. If the forum were all that then I would have never found this place but it does provide you with the ability to post questions in more than one location and receive direct responses from Todd Lammle (Although they were very short responses in my experiences)... I would still recommend the book here...

http://www.lammle.com

4. The Bryant Advantage
I own this eBook and would compare it to the Lammle book if only it would have been provided in PDF format. The examples are good and Chris Bryant is provides some great insight. I would be hard put to determine who is the best technical writer between Bryant, Lammle and Wendell Odom.. Jeremy Ciaora wins in the video series though. The Bryant Advantage also gives you access to Bryant's forum. At this point I already had access to Tech Tips so could not really tell you much about it but you have the ability to post your questions directly to a CCIE who promises a quick response.

http://www.thebryantadvantage.com

6. CCNA VER 5 COMPANION
This is the book that CiscoGuy is always hyping about and he is right! This book provided me with some great labs and awesome insight plus it's FREE!

http://www.lulu.com/content/815026

7. Measure Up
This is a great site when you reach the final study period. (45 days out would be my recommendation but no less than 30) This costs $109 but you have access to quizzes that really do test your understanding... In fact, they force it upon you. I got this for free through the Network Academy (Hint Hint CiscoG if you don't already know) and almost didn't use it. That would have been a mistake as I am a huge fan now!

http://www.measureup.com

8. GNS3
This is a nice FREEWARE application that emulates some specific Cisco IOS releases. In other words you have access to routers, switches and with PEMU/QEMU even Pix Firewalls.. This is an invaluable tool but I must say that NOTHING IS AS GOOD AS THE REAL THING. Will follow up with that.

http://www.gns3.net

9. Boson NetSim
This is a very nice Simulator. Much better than most out there and it blows the SemSim simulator away! More on Semsim to come. This is much more simple to install than GNS3 and does not require the processor power that an emulator does. This does not require you to have access to an IOS either which GNS3 does.

http://www.boson.com

10. GNS3 Extras
IOS Hunter
This will help you locate those much needed IOS's for GNS3. Just Google it!
Blind Hog Website
This is an awesome site with many cool video tutorials pertaining to Cisco and Dynagen/Dynamips with GNS3

http://www.blindhog.net

11. eBay
You will eventually buy your own lab and when you do eBay is your best friend! Other sites of note are:

http://www.cablesandkits.com

http://www.ciscokits.com

http://www.anthonypanda.com

(CiscoGuy's recommendation)

NOTE: I was thoroughly unimpressed with everything I received from SemSim. I was looking for a simulator and their "complete" package looked like a nice deal. This was not the case in my opinion and I did not use it. The simulator was a joke and quick reference card seemed to be quickly thrown together as well. Left me feeling ripped off. OK.. just wanted to share.

MOST IMPORTANT!!! A REAL LAB
Please don't attack me guys! I put this down here because it will require the most writing. This is, in my opinion, the most important part of your Cisco exploration and discovery. There are many posts in this forum in regard to purchasing your own lab and there is absolutely nothing like the experience gained from researching and working through your lab.

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[maczen]

I know, I know guys.. Deja Vu!

(It WAS the same cat!)

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

Well, im saving up some money for my own lab about two months down the line( I'm planning on getting a good lab right off the bat so that it'll pay off even after I finish my CCNA ), but I just picked up packet tracer and I was wondering if its actually a good program to use till I can actually get my hands on a working lab.

From what I can see it looks like its the most in depth programs I have found yet, with physical locations as well as theoretical. Thats a really neat feature.

thanks

Mike "synonix" Ernst

 

[maczen]

It is a very nice simulator! Make sure you have version 5. I will have to add that to my list with the Network Academy! When I was in the Academy version 4 was out and it was missing a LOT of features but many of those discrepancies were addressed in version 5. Will be great for CCNA but keep your eye on the lab because that is where the REAL knowledge comes from! Things just magically work with simulators.. Not so with a lab!



B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

Oh, just to add to what I already said, funny you guys should mention the Sybex because i have it right in front of me. The only issue im having is that it seems to be an older edition(5th) and the CiscoPress version i have is the newest one.

CCNA cybex book I have tends to focus more on the OSI Layers as opposed to the Ciscopress tends to focus more on the TCP\IP layers. In Fact, now that i think about it, i don't think the Sybex book says anything about TCP\IP layers ( we read most of it in my CCNA class ).

 

[lerdalt]

I had an older copy of the Ciscopress books, and I thought it balanced between the OSI and TCPIP layers pretty well. Hate to say it, but I don't know the TCPIP layers that well. But I've had OSI drilled into me so many times it's hard to change out.

 

[Synonix]

I agree lerdalt, when attending class it was pretty much drilled into my head as well, but the ciscopress book goes into TCP\IP alot more indepth and i can make a strong connection between the OSI layers and the TCP\IP model now, which is nice.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Synonix,

You want the 6th edition -

CCNA: Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide, 6th Edition (Exam 640-802) by Todd Lammle
Sybex, Paperback, 6th Bk&CD edition, Published August 2007, 1008 pages, ISBN 0470110082
List Price: $49.99
Our Price: $30.95
You Save: $19.04 (38% Off)
Availability: In-Stock

http://www.bookpool.com/sm/0470110082

As far as Packet Tracer - it is a pretty good sim - but make sure you get a lab - READ the CCNA LAB Blog I linked to above, it will help you get what you need and understand what you do not need!!




E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Synonix]

Thnx CG, ill probably be starting out with about 1.5 grand and seeing where i can go from there.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Synonix,

For $1,500 you can get a pretty good lab that will be a good start for CCNP!!

Just read the Wendell Odom CCNA Lab blog - he has one for CCNP also - ask questions here - most of us here at Tek-Tips have built pretty nice labs, I have done 2 over the past 8 years.

Good luck!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[lerdalt]

Yeah..$1500 will go a long ways towards a kick butt lab. If you look on ebay, you can find some of the lab kits that will have more than you need in them.

CiscoGuy has several good posts/links to other sites that talk about building out your home lab.

 

[maczen]

I just posted a link to some 3640's on eBay right now! Pretty sweet deal! Seller may even combine shipping as there are a few of these..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-3640-Rout...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

Yeah very tempting!

I still got a wait a paycheck or two before investing in equipment though.

And i don't truly know what i want yet when it comes to a lab. im new to any cisco hardware( im guessing that routers good? ), just getting the concepts down now. ill be reading more into what that link has to say that CG gave me.

once again u guys are awsome.

 

[maczen]

No prob Syn!
Yeah.. 3640 is about as good as you can get for the money and slots! Can run pretty much any IOS necessary for all of the CCNA's as well as the CCNP plus there is a plethora of network modules available for this bad boy!!! They are in production all over the place! Best of all you can usually find one with 64D/16F for around $100. A memory kit to max one out at 128D/32F generally runs around $50 (eBay)

I have three of these! Kind of became my router of choice.. LoL You should also look at the XM series routers but you usually spend more money there and not much gain in my opinion other than the fact that the 26xx XM routers are 1U and the 3640's are 2U which means they take up twice the space in your rack!

Incidentally, 26xx's vent out of the bottom of the router while 36xx's vent out the back! You can stack 3640's until you can afford a rack!

When that time comes look around.. I initially went with a Skeletek and it has been pretty good. Wobbles a little which is the main reason that I decided to replace it. I spoke to Dantrak and they said that the wobbling was normal for a B model rack. Was willing to trade me a C model which they stated did not wobble.. So if you go with Skeletek make sure to by a C model.. The Skeletek B20U is a B!

Back to routers.. You can supplement some of your routers with 25xx's such as the 2501 or 2503... There are plenty of 25xx's to choose from and they are dirt cheap.. Remember that they will not run 12.4 but you can still use them for your studies just be sure to have a couple of 12.4 capable routers in the mix...

When you get ready let us know and we will go into detail on the routers and break into the topic of switches!



B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[Synonix]

ok guys ive been doing a little research, hows this for a starting lab.

Router:1841 with a T1 DSU/CSU card

Switch: WS-3550-24-SMI (probably EI), and WS-C2950-24 (probably SI) for variation.

if those 2 switches wouldn't mix well please let me know!

for a 1500 budget... i still have a few hundred to work with probably for a rack and wires.

 

[Synonix]

BTW my parents decided to help me out by loaning me some cash earlier then when i have it for this budget, which is nice of them.

When i get all the equipment ill setup some pics!!

 

[lerdalt]

I'd look into picking up a second router with either another built in CSU, or switch out your current CSU with a WIC-2t Card and get the DTE/DCE cables to go between the routers.

Personally, I do like using CSU's, but that's just because I have a bunch of spares readily available to me at work. I then make a T1 cross over cable to go between them.

Don't know what anyone else thinks, but you might want to look at picking up an RJ45 crimper, some ends, and some cable. Crimpers are pretty cheap anymore, and I even got a little tester (just one that does the LED tests, not actual certification) for like $5-$10 on ebay.