I should have said... 2

[BJCooperIT]

Perhaps you have experienced a similar scenario where someone does something incredibly stupid, offensive, dangerous or outrageous. It is a moment you just cannot let pass and you have to say something or you will be playing the "I Should Have Said" game later. In the heat of the moment it is difficult to formulate words that hit their intended target, not to wound, but to make the person understand your position.

Case #1
I once had severe acid reflux that was eating away my vocal cords. I went to an Ear/Nose/Throat doctor who proceeded to berate me for smoking. I tried to explain to this man that I have asthma and allergies and have never smoked. He flat out called me a liar. Since he was older than I, and a physician, my upbringing dictated that I treat him with the respect that he certainly was not showing me. Eight years later I still wonder how I could have responded to him effectively.

Case #2
My son had a friend who lived at my house for a year after he graduated from college. He gave our home telephone out as his own. This so-called "friend" secretly moved out owing everyone money. We are still getting nasty calls from his bill collectors. I understand that these collections agents are paid to be pushy but I when I explained that the "friend" had not lived there in two years the agent called me a liar and threatened me. I told him I would contact a lawyer and he replied that XYZ Company had their own lawyers and he knew I was covering for the "friend". After the call I was very upset and felt I had lost the battle. Because I was unable to communicate effectively with this man we have been letting the answering screen all calls for the past six months.

Here is one tip I can offer:
I have learned to never start a sentence with the words "You" or "Your" when addressing someone with whom I disagree. For instance: "Your mother is spoiling the kids" is better phrased as "The kids are being spoiled by Nana". The your can make the listener feel as though it is their fault and put them on the defensive.

Do you have and tips to share on how to effectively communicate with an adversary?


^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant Developer/Analyst Oracle, Forms, Reports & PL/SQL (Windows)
My website: www.EmuProductsPlus.com

 

[stackdump]

Good advice is never to agree to anything, unless you have it in writing and that means old fashioned paper through the mail.

So I would promote something along the lines of;

"You owe us money, pay up!"
"Please put your request in writing, my representative will correspond with you in due course. Goodbye."

If you're concerned about the legality of something, then having a paper trail always puts you in a better circumstance.

Apparently, recording a phone conversation does not result in anything legally admissible, unless the person you're conversing with has been told from the outset that the call is being recorded. Im not sure whether this is true, but my guess is that it is, mainly because in this crazy world we live in, it always seems that villains have more rights than the victims.

 

[buck2506]

Since everyone is sharing experience....

Col. "May I speak to Kevin?"
Me. "Who are you with?"
Col. "What do you mean?" or "This is Bob"
Me "What company do you work for?" (working very hard to
keep the idiot tone out of my voice)
Col. "Oh, I'm with XZY company. Is Kevin there?" or my personal favorite "This concerns personal private business"
After that the conversation degenerates.

As you can tell I do sometimes enjoy dealing with collectors. My goal throughout these exchanges is to get them to hang up. If they have been particularly rude, threating or obnoxious I have called back.

I also like the old "SO, that little so and so owes you money too."

 

[chiph]

One of the nice things about "Chip" being a nickname, is it's easy to filter out those who know me personally from those who picked up my name from the phone book (or other nefarious telemarketing scheme).

If I ever have kids, they're all getting nicknames just so they can keep their personal and public lives separate.

Chip H.


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[fumei]

#1. I think I would at least try to work it rationally. Politely ask the doctor for what evidence he has that you smoke. Most smokers have some indication on their fingernails. No, I don't? OK, evidence on my teeth? No, I don't? Then based on what evidence, exactly, are you stating I smoke?

Then....hmmm, if it can not be discussed rationally, then you do what you do with irrational people. Get the hell away from them. Your doctor should absolutely be able to converse rationally with you.

#2. Santa pretty much covered that one.

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[Ladyazh]

fumei!!!!!! You are a real artist!!!!!! I loved your work!

 

[kjv1611]

BJCooperIT,

As mentioned by jebenson, yes the FDCPA (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act) does directly forbid such calls.

I worked as a debt collector for 2 years, and provided training for the FDCPA and applicable state laws at my company for another 2 years.

If you get any more calls from collection agencies, I would definitely pursue them. In such a case as you mentioned, the collector was in direct violation. If he has related to you that he is a debt collector, he has committed what is known as "third party disclosure."

Basically, a debt collector is not allowed to communicate information to a third party (anyone outside the scope of the creditor-collector-consumer relationship - or basically, anyone who has nothing to do with the debt on any end).

If this were to occur again, at the least, you should speak with a supervisor. It also would not hurt to get the name of the collector (whatever they give you), the name of the company, and mailing address if possible. Then, you could send a letter to the company addressing the issue, which will be taken much more seriously by any legitimate collection organization who tries to abide by the law.

If the collection company is serious about such matters, and have planned accordingly with the correct technologies, and so long as you provide the telephone number they called, and the name they asked for, the management can track down the specific call, connect that call to the collector who made it, and take appropriate actions - whether the collector provided his/her real name or not. This would also help for any of a collector posing as a manager ordeal.

Another thing to do would take the company name and do some searching online. You will find that some are problem companies, while yet others have rather "frivilous" claims against the organizations, but you should be able to find out pretty quickly which organizations are serious and which are not.

I can say that if I had acted in the manner in which the collector acted when calling you where I work, I would have been reprimanded by management. Matter of fact, if I made it a practice, I would have been without a job.

And, of course, I also realize that it is difficult to actually prove anything from a telephone conversation as apposed to something in writing. If you are still getting calls (I hope not), I would recommend setting up a computer or a recording device to record telephone calls whenever this occurs, so that you can have the proof you need to combat such fools.

Everyone would be thankful for anyone such as that being put out of their current job - whether it's the individual or the whole company represented. They give collectors a bad name, and the cause everyone else major headaches.

I have also had some of the wrong number deals call my home before, b/c they did something called "skip tracing" - which you can also read about online. Basically, they found a listing for the same last name and city, or maybe same last name and first initial, and called my house.

If you learn a few of the FDCPA sections, as well, you can always throw a couple of those at the collector - you don't have to memorize it, just say "section 806.whatever says you can't do bla bla bla.."

As to the first situation, I'd have to agree with everyone else. Respecting elders is important, yes. But, if an elder is cussing me and my family out, that wouldn't deserve respect, if he was 140 years old. With that in mind, if you are paying someone to do a job, regardless of age, you are to respect them to carry out their job in honesty and sincerity, and if not, they do not deserve your payment for their services/product. If a doctor cannot accept the fact that you don't smoke, whether he's 24 or 84, he's not setting forth a respectable position.

Wow, ok. Hopefully someone can use some of this long post. If not, I appologize for the length.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Great advice and information, kjv. Hava

.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[flapeyre]

Update:

Nielsen actually sent me the ratings diary. I called the number and told them I was sending it back - blank. I anso enclosed a note reminding them that I had refused the diary on the first call. Sheesh.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[Stella740pl]

flapeyre,

I don't follow.
Or did you mean to post it somewhere else?

 

[kjv1611]

flapeyre,

I don't follow.
Or did you mean to post it somewhere else?

Or maybe flapeyre should have not said?

Maybe the thought/idea just flapped is way into the wrong area?

You can all now mourn over the corniness.

 

[Gooser]

If I am unfamiliar with the name the caller is asking for, I always say "he/she's in the shower with <insert random opposite-sex name here>, may I please take a message?" They usually hang up.

If not, I go on to ask them what they are wearing.

Or I ask them to hold, put the phone down and do push-ups within earshot of the receiver. I don't know what pushups sound like over the phone, but they usually hang up after a few reps. I don't understand why.

--Gooser

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Case #1
I once had severe acid reflux that was eating away my vocal cords. I went to an Ear/Nose/Throat doctor who proceeded to berate me for smoking. I tried to explain to this man that I have asthma and allergies and have never smoked. He flat out called me a liar. Since he was older than I, and a physician, my upbringing dictated that I treat him with the respect that he certainly was not showing me. Eight years later I still wonder how I could have responded to him effectively.

Anyone who has done any type of tech support knows that all users lie. If someone reports that their keyboard is soaking wet, chances are they spilled something on it or dropped it in liquid - regardless of what they tell you.

My point is, if the doctor sees something that is caused by smoking 99.9999% of the time, he is going to press you about your smoking habits. It's basically Occam's razor. Sure, there are unusual causes for things, but you don't go looking for the freakishly rare answers before exhausting the more common ones.

[Slightly Off Topic]
This reminds me.... I once had an ENT ask me how many times my nose had been broken. (I, apparently, have a wickedly deviated septum.) I told him, "Never". After he tried to get to admit to it for a bit, he decided that my nose must have been broken in utero. Perhaps he is right - I honestly don't remember much from back then.
[/Off Topic]

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[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[kjv1611]

[Slightly Off Topic]
....
[/Off Topic]

I see where the "Off Topic" gets turned off...
So, where does the Slightly get turned off at?

 

[BJCooperIT]

Me too, kjv1611, thanks a star's worth!

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant Developer/Analyst Oracle, Forms, Reports & PL/SQL (Windows)
My website: www.EmuProductsPlus.com

 

[flapeyre]

kjv1611:

See my post in this thread of 6 Oct 06 16:47.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[kjv1611]

flapeyre,

Ahh, so, post number 123456789 explains your deal about Nielson. Gotcha.

Ok, so it wasn't a fleeting thought, there, but just had lots and lots of stuff in between.

Now, I see how it is that the IRS is able to get all our tax dollars. It's that fine print, mixed in amongst a buch of other verbage, where the other verbage really doesn't matter - yet, we don't see the stuff that really[/] matters until it's too late! Tax Day!

Yeah, I think that Tax Day for us Americans is like D-Day was for the Germans who were whipped in that battle. They first thought they were fine, no chance of losing, then there was the one loop hole that got'em!

 

[aarenot]

case one. remind the doctor that you pay for his services, and although you value his proffessional medical advice, you do not value his opinion of the validity of yout statement in regard to your smoking. you will expect him to proceed with your treatment with regard to your stated behaviour, as a proffessional. if he continues to offer his non-medical opinion in treatment, and alters your treatment due to his non-medical opinion, that he does so at the peril of his medical liablity, as well as your respect for him as an individual capable of reacting in a proffessional matter. calm, and without anger.

case two
if what you want is to stop the calls, then keep him on the phone as long as you possibly can. try, 'hold on a second, my kid fell down, and is crying, be right back'. come back in a couple minutes, and waste more of his time. after wasting as much of his time as you feel is possible, tell him that was your intent, and that next time he calls you will do the same.
works for getting yourself removed from telemarketers as well, they will remove you from their database, or note not to call you. even show interst in their product, or in helping them resolve the collections issue to keep them on the phone. they will see there is no profit potential in speaking with you, and not call again.

 

[alicorn2]

My ex-boyfriend had debt collectors who called our number, and when he moved out (and I kept the same phone number) I occasionally got calls for him. I basically said "he doesn't live here anymore, but I know he works, or used to work anyway, XYZ company. Here's their phone number, perhaps they can help you track him down."

So I was totally helpful to them, at the same time clearly not able to be any more help at all. Calls stopped pretty quickly.