I should have said... 2

[BJCooperIT]

Perhaps you have experienced a similar scenario where someone does something incredibly stupid, offensive, dangerous or outrageous. It is a moment you just cannot let pass and you have to say something or you will be playing the "I Should Have Said" game later. In the heat of the moment it is difficult to formulate words that hit their intended target, not to wound, but to make the person understand your position.

Case #1
I once had severe acid reflux that was eating away my vocal cords. I went to an Ear/Nose/Throat doctor who proceeded to berate me for smoking. I tried to explain to this man that I have asthma and allergies and have never smoked. He flat out called me a liar. Since he was older than I, and a physician, my upbringing dictated that I treat him with the respect that he certainly was not showing me. Eight years later I still wonder how I could have responded to him effectively.

Case #2
My son had a friend who lived at my house for a year after he graduated from college. He gave our home telephone out as his own. This so-called "friend" secretly moved out owing everyone money. We are still getting nasty calls from his bill collectors. I understand that these collections agents are paid to be pushy but I when I explained that the "friend" had not lived there in two years the agent called me a liar and threatened me. I told him I would contact a lawyer and he replied that XYZ Company had their own lawyers and he knew I was covering for the "friend". After the call I was very upset and felt I had lost the battle. Because I was unable to communicate effectively with this man we have been letting the answering screen all calls for the past six months.

Here is one tip I can offer:
I have learned to never start a sentence with the words "You" or "Your" when addressing someone with whom I disagree. For instance: "Your mother is spoiling the kids" is better phrased as "The kids are being spoiled by Nana". The your can make the listener feel as though it is their fault and put them on the defensive.

Do you have and tips to share on how to effectively communicate with an adversary?


^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant Developer/Analyst Oracle, Forms, Reports & PL/SQL (Windows)
My website: www.EmuProductsPlus.com

 

[rjoubert]

It's always best to take a few seconds to take a deep breath, formulate your thoughts, and respond in a calm tone. Of course, that's always easier said than done, especially when the "discussion" is more of a heated debate.

More often than not, I find that the old adage "Hindsight is always 20/20" rings true with me. I seem to find the right words after it is too late to say them.

 

[Trevoke]

These two are situations when you are being called a liar and you are not lying. Do you have self-esteem issues, or are you shy, or do you have a weak, non-assertive voice?

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Case #2:
I'd pick up the phone, ask to speak to a supervisor and inform him or her that their company is never to ever call your phone number again. If they even start to argue, ask for their supervisor.


[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[BJCooperIT]

Trevoke,
No self esteem issues - I know I am a person of value and do not feel obligated to prove myself. I do speak a calm, quiet fashion, but (and my kids will confirm) I do make my feelings known. I think this has much to do with upbringing. I was taught treat everyone with respect, whether they deserve it or not. I am mortified when my 23 year old daughter tells someone like that to "F*** off".

 

[PaulTEG]

Case 1: "I don't take kindly to being called a liar, and I would like you to revoke your last comment, I am not now, nor ever have been a smoker ..."
Just advise the man that his hypothesis is incorrect, it may be his training didn't cover conditions such as yours, so next time he encounters it, he may be a bit more benevolent in his dealings with it.

Case 2: "I beg your pardon, is this call being recorded, if so I want a copy for my records forthwith, if not, could I have your name and designation within your company so my legal team can make contact concerning some upcoming litigation..."
Then call your lawyer, this isn't about being defensive, it's being offensive. Sure the person has a job to do, but same as everyone else on the planet they carry full responsibility for their actions, might not go anywhere, but at least you'll be vindicated.

Having never been put in either position, I'm not sure how I'd react off the cuff, but I hope it'd be something like the above

hindsight 20/20, don't knock yourself up about it, in both cases, they probably never thought of it again, most bullies don't ...

Paul
------------------------------------
Spend an hour a week on CPAN, helps cure all known programming ailments ;-)

 

[CajunCenturion]

Sometimes it's very difficult to remain professional and stay focused on the issue (and not the person) when involved in a disagreement. I always try to remember that I disagree with what was said, not with who said it.

That being said, communication is a two-way street and no matter what you say or do, or not say or don't do, you have no control over the other person. If the other person refuses to maintain civility and professionalism, that person will simply not allow for a rational discourse.

In the second case, I agree with anotherhiggins. I think the best course of action to try to move up the food chain, and speak with someone who can remain civil and professional, willing to discuss both issues: the business at hand, and the offensive employee.

The first case is a little tougher, but I would walk out and file a grievance with the AMA. Individually, unless there are witnesses, there's probably very little you can as it would probably turn into a "he said she said" situation. By filing a grievance, however, you can help establish a pattern of behavior.

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[traingamer]

Case 2)
There are so many ways to deal with this.
One way: Ask to speak with their 'real' supervisor, not the 'other collector pretending to be the supervisor when people ask for one' ( a common collector technique). Then explain that you want your phone number removed from their active calling lists (most of them use automated dialers).

Stress how they are wasting their time. They get paid on commission, so wasting time is very bad.

Another way: (use especially if first method doesn't work) tell them to 'hold on' and put the phone down.
Check back periodically, asking them to 'hang on a second'.
(This probably won't stop the calls, but will relieve your anxiety about them quite nicely.) Never hang up before they do - this keeps the line busy and prevents them from making money.

Greg
"Personally, I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught." - Winston Churchill

 

[sleipnir214]

Yeah, in case #2, the caller overstepped the bounds of what he/she is allowed to do. At the moment you are called a liar, you must start playing your "What's your name and who's your boss?" game.


I had a situation where the previous tenant of a house I was renting skipped town, leaving a bunch of bills. After I had been in the house about a year, some enterprising person at a collection agency looked up my address in an upside-down phone book and started calling me. I developed a policy: if any phone call to my house mentioned the previous tenant's name, I would say, "No one named '[previous tenant's name]' lives at this address" then hang up.

I figured that I was answering as honestly and as tersely as possible. Collectors don't want to hear stories: they want money.



About case #1:

ince he was older than I, and a physician, my upbringing dictated that I treat him with the respect that he certainly was not showing me

You need to unlearn some of that or modify what you've learned.

I was taught to show everyone respect, regardless of age, etc., but to also expect respect in return. The minute anyone gets up in my grill without just cause, I reserve the right to jump-start that person. This is doubly true of anyone who I am paying to provide me a service. This is quadruply true when dealing with medical professionals (although I hesitate to use that word to describe the doctor you describe), because frank and open communication is absolutely necessary to getting good medical service.




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[rjoubert]

My wife and I used to get calls from some company looking for some woman who did not live with us...probably someone who used to have our phone number. My wife came up with a pretty ingenious way of dealing with the calls. When they asked for this mysterious person, she would start talking in her native dialect (she's from the Philippines). Needless to say, they didn't want to waste their time.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Barb,

(BTW, when I started writing this response, no one had responded yet. But as you know about me already, I can get a bit long winded when a topic gets me "charged up". So, Barb, if any of my suggestions, below, duplicate the excellent advise from others, above, please accept my apologies...it results from my not being able to type faster.)

Your Cases, above, are examples of scenarios that try people's souls. Developing a few canned responses when someone (badly) mistreats you are important pieces of armour to remain sane. The important thing to always remember, is "You can wallow with the pigs, and the pigs love it, but all you do is get muddy." Don't lose you cool with such unprofessional representatives. When you lose your cool, they know that they've "won". There is plenty of ammunition that you can use to deal with their unprofessionalism without their getting the best of you.

Here are some responses that I have developed to great advantage:

Armour #1: "Please connect me with your supervisor?" When you sense that a Customer Service representative is either no longer serving you or is, instead, servicing you in very bad way, here are the steps:

1) At the beginning of every single phone call that you have with a business, before you even start discussing any business issue (and things begin getting out of control), obtain the following vital pieces of information:

a) Confirm the spelling of their name and ask if they have a badge number or id number that uniquely locates them.

b) Ask for the telephone number to reach them in case you get disconnected.

2) Fully document the conversation. Like most of us Tek-Tipsters, I work in front of a computer all day long. I have a plain, old Word document (named "notes.doc") that I keep in background whenever my computer is "on". I enter the date and time of every conversation/note/important fact that occurs in my life at any time. (I enter all new information at the top of my notes.doc file so that the contents are in chronological order.) This way, I can instantly search for any significant piece of information that occurs in my life, including all conversations with businesses and "customer-service" personnel. When my search gets a "hit", I have a full disclosure of the facts of my conversation(s).

3) When things start degrading in the conversation, politely, and under full control, request that they transfer you to their supervisor. If they refuse to transfer you, then document their refusal in your "notes.doc" file and ask again until they either agree to transfer you or they hang up. Once they hang up on you (without transferring), call back and ask to speak with "<So-and-so's>" supervisor. Do not allow the new representative to distract you from reaching "<So-and-so's>" supervisor.

Once you reach the supervisor, perform steps 1) and 2), above. If the "new" conversation becomes déjà vu with previous conversations, then perform step 3), until you reach the President/CEO of the company.

One behaviour that you will notice is that the higher you go in the company, the less likely the person will be to want to "waste" their time with (what to them is) a "trivial" matter. As a result, the higher-ups will likely respond, "I'll take care of this."

Be sure that whoever commits to "take care of this", that you extract from them a) a commitment that they will send you either a written or e-mail confirmation of the resolution of the matter, and b) a date by which you will receive the confirmation.

Also thank them graciously for their time and attention to resolving this matter and acknowledge to them that you are sorry that this had to be escalated to this level in the organisation...and perhaps their customer-service training needs to confirm to the trainees that they are impowered to resolve such issues without bothering executives in the company.

If, instead of success, you reach an impasse, use appropriate Armour, below.

Armour #2: "Respond to the 'I'm sorry Ma'am/Sir, we are not able to do that' syndrome." Very few things cause me to roll my eyes quicker than that lame statement.

My response is to employ the "D.A.M. Principle". When someone gives my the "I'm sorry..." line. I say,

I am positive that what I am asking is possible. But to achieve my request, you, or the person with whom I am speaking, must have the:

Desire to resolve my request,
Authority to resolve my request, and
Means to resolve my request.

It is very likely that your organisation's policy stands in the way of your assisting me in my request, which is certainly not your fault. But someone in your organisation has the Authority and Means to adjust that policy appropriately to achieve a resolution in this matter that is satisfactory to both me and your organisation.

So, can you please transfer me to someone whom you know has the Desire, Authority, and Means to help me resolve this matter?

Be sure to apply the principles appearing in Armour #1, above.


Armour #3: "I must refer this to my attorney to resolve this matter." As a last resort, let your attorney intervene. When you reach an impasse at the highest level of the company with whom you can speak, express your regret that the attorneys must become involved; indicate the name of the law firm from whom they will be hearing; and request the name, phone number, and mailing address of the organisation's legal representation.

Most of us might say to ourselves, "Hey, I don't have an attorney...They're too expensive." IMHO, it is worse to be without ready legal representation than without a personal doctor.

I, personally, spend $17 per month for legal representation. I have a pre-paid legal service that does all my bidding and "nasty, threatening letter writing" for me, included in the $17. (If this is of interest to you, and you want to know more, I can refer you to someone who can enroll you, as well. Just contact me via my signature.)

Keep in mind that collection agencies in the U.S. are very heavily regulated. They must behave within very specific parameters. The collection-agency reps that you describe, above, appear to be stepping way outside of their restrictions, and you can initiate legal action against them, provided you can document their misbehaviour.

Let me know if the above Armour(s) are helpful in dealing with the challenges you mention, above.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[jebenson]

Case #2:

This collector may have vioated state and/or federal statutes governing this type of activity. Using threats in such a situation is illegal in many states, and in federal law.

Here's a link to the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act:

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Just from a cursory reading, it seems that the collector may have violated portions of sections 804, 805 and 806.

You should also contact the consumer affairs office (or its equivalent) in the state where you live, as there may be additional, specific statutes in your state.

Even if you don't need to use any of this information, it is still good to have. Many debt collectors rely on their "marks" being ignorant of the law and/or the consumer's rights in these situations. From personal experience, I can tell you that one of the quickest ways to get them to leave you alone is to demonstrate that you do indeed know the law and your rights.



I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

Arrrr, mateys! Ye needs ta be preparin' yerselves fer Talk Like a Pirate Day! Ye has a choice: talk like a pira

 

[Trevoke]

BJCooperIT : Then, everyone here is right, and you simply were dealing with inconsiderate people.
I'm 23 and would be appalled if I heard your daughter speak in such a fashion to someone on the phone..
While I grew up treating everyone with respect, I like to think that I do not let my integrity be trampled.

Case #1 : Doctor, what makes you say that I smoke?

Everyone else has taken care of case #2..

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[Ladyazh]

I almost missed such a good thread! My 2c in
Case1:
At the end when it was abvious that man created his own wrong opinion of me I would (I mean I WOULD honest to goodness)said as you suggested yourself:
Dear Doc...the minute I walked into your office I decided since you are older than I am, and a physician, my upbringing dictated that I treat you with the respect that you certainly is not showing me.If I forgot my upbringing and stepped down to your level imagine that this visit could end up in court...so is this what you want me to do?

Case2:
You have ONE and only one exit...change the phone and have it unlisted. You can not step down to their level because I think these people are specially selected in specail terrariums of some place called 'brainhole' and whatever you do they do not listen, understand nor care much.
Seems like they are given dose of brain sedation medicine as they wolking into the terrarium and here they go...lalalalalalalalala
I once put the receiver on a table and heard he was talking non stop for about 5 min then I picked up and said - have you realized you just talked to my table? I 'saw' him silent moving his head on his neck trying to figure out what I've just said and he NEVER called back. I miss him...
They also exist in a form of salespeople who calling you to waterproff basement and you say 'I do not have a basement' and they say "of course you do...

 

[sha76]

One thing I've found quite good when other angles have failed is "Please could you explain your complaints procedure to me?". Said perfectly calmly (or positively sweetly if things have gone very badly!) I think this probably shows I'm serious & carries more weight than "I'm going to complain to xxxxxx about the way I've been treated".

<off topic>
Just carrying on the cold callers theme, I have fun with them, trying to see how quickly I can get them to hang up (NB I'm not abusive to them & would never swear at them). Even I was shocked at the effectivness of my latest tack though:
Caller: Hi, could I speak to sha76 please?
Me: Yes, speaking. Are you trying to sell me something?
Caller: Err, yes
Me: I'm not interested, thank you.
Caller hangs up.
</off topic>

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[rjoubert]

I have registered my phone number with both National level and State level "Do Not Call" registries. In theory, if you're on this list, telemarketers are not aloud to call you, unless their company already does business with you. If they violate this policy, you can report them to the registry, and they run the risk of being fined. Ever since I have been on this registry, I have noticed a dramatic decrease in the amount of telemarketer cold calls that I receive.

 

[Ladyazh]

Sales calls and collection calls - please do not mix up!

 

[rjoubert]

Oh, did I veer slightly off topic? That NEVER happens in this forum.

 

[Thadeus]

[background]I am married to a woman who shared my same last name (McAdams for this post) prior to our marriage.[/background]

My wife (Jen) gets a call from someone looking for "Julie McAdams". My wife says noone with that name here, but that is her sister's name. [Doh! the naivety!] They leave a number for "Julie" to call them. I then apprise my wife of what she just did. Calls begin for about 2 weeks to which my wife now responds with "I don't know a Julie McAdams" to no avail.

So I get a call from them.
[caller] May we speak with Julie McAdams?
[thadeus] This is Julie, how may I help you?
[caller] This is Julie?
[thadeus] Yes it is. What do you need?
[caller chuckling] OK, this is not Julie. Please get Julie.
[thadeus] What do you mean this isn't Julie? Of course I am.
[caller] We show Julie is a female
[thadeus] Right
[caller] Are you a female?
[thadeus] Is that what this call is regarding? Are you calling to ask questions about my gender?

<This continues for awhile>

Finally I ask the caller if it makes sense that my wife's sister would have the same last name as me? It finally sinks in enough that she allows I was randomly pegged because I share the same last name and live in the same geographic vicinity... therefore the "Julie" they were looking for wouldn't be my wife's kin, but mine.

A note was put in the file and the calls ended.

~thadeus "mcadams"

[aside]During an earlier call, I was able to get the name of the collection firm. I looked them up and was able to find out the name of the founder/owner. I then did a search for the name in the region where the business was located. I found a single household and it was an exact match. I never called the house, but I was ready to if the calls continued. The internet is a wonderful thing.[/aside]

 

[flapeyre]

The other day I got a call from Neilsen, asking me if I wanted to keep a TV diary. I said no.

Me: I don't watch much TV.
N: But we need to sample people who don't watch much TV, to get an good cross-section.
Me: I'm not interested. I don't do surveys of any kind.
N: But:
Me: Sorry, not interested <click>.

Most of these clowns supress their caller ID info. Normally, I don't answer them. I was expecting another call and did not have my glasses handy, and could nor read the infernally small display on the phone.

Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!