I have no hope 1

[nicholasharris]

I have no hope. I have been in this career for 15 years. I am still swapping tapes and doing intern-level work. I make a salary about the mid $40,000 range.

I have a 135 IQ. I scored a 790 on the SAT in math. I had a lot of hope for this career. I have none now and don't believe that I will ever do what I am capable of doing. My brains have been wasted, and I don't believe that they will ever be utilized.

I was optimistic when I got into this. I had high hopes. I worked hard and cared about my success.

I don't care anymore. I don't want to touch a computer anymore.

I am desperately searching for some way out of this drudgery. Assuming I make the choice to stay alive, what options do I have? And why should I stay alive?

 

[hjgoldstein]

When you say "this career for 15 years" do you mean in the same job for that time?
If so that's a long time in one job by any standard.

If you mean you have been in a number of different jobs have you simply been applying for something you feel comfortable with?

If you are reluctant to apply for something which challenges more than your current role why not go for something in a different industry?

It may seem a drastic step but it may give you the incentive to get up in the morning and see what you can achieve.

Failing that, what about studying for a qualification in something outside of your comfort zone? You sound as if you would be more than capable of achieving something which would help you move forward. If you have the time and resource it can only be a good thing.

As far as "...why should I stay alive?" well, it's better than the alternative, however you may be feeling right now.

As we say on this side of the pond, "Chin up old man."

Good luck.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

 

[Noway2]

It sounds to me like you need help with depression and that is beyond what can be provided in a technical forum. As gjgoldstein pointed out, it also sounds like you need a job / career change, which very well may be part of the answer and solution you need. My advice would be to seek some counseling.

 

[mattKnight]

>It sounds to me like you need help with depression

+1
And do it now, not later, now! It amazing how much better something as simple as looking for that help may make you feel.

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[nicholasharris]

I have went after dozens of jobs. I have had probably hundreds of failed job interviews.

Applying for a job does not mean that I will get one. Asking for a job does not mean that I will get it. That applies to a new career as well as a job. A new career also likely means moving down in money, which is something I don't want to do.

I am working on a novel right now. I will be publishing it. That is one hope I Have.

When I meet kids who are majoring in stuff like computer science, I tell them to stay the hell away from this.

The only other thing I do is take lots of acting classes. I love the people. And unlike IT work, I can actually meet women there.

As far as classes are concerned, I was an MCSE on NT 4.0. It was worthless. I haven't bothered with anything else since then.

 

[johnherman]

1. Assuming you've been at your current position at least a month, have you made it clear that you are interested in EXPANDING your role and knowledge in the computer field?

2. If not, are you stating in the OBJECTIVE section of your resume (if you have one) or in the cover letter for the position that you are interested in positions where you have a chance to grow your knowledge, career planning, and things like that?

3. When you interview, do you also focus on these topics when the interviewer asks you if you have any questions?

If not, you need to be doing so. Believing that you have no hope show in your attitude. There is hope. You need to get focused again.

====================================
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

 

[nicholasharris]

When you say "this career for 15 years" do you mean in the same job for that time?

No, I have changed jobs. The longest on a job was about three and half years.

If you mean you have been in a number of different jobs have you simply been applying for something you feel comfortable with?

I have applied for many jobs. I have applied for jobs which may have been over my head. I have applied for jobs which I thought I could do, even though I didn't have the experience.

If you are reluctant to apply for something which challenges more than your current role why not go for something in a different industry?

I have no confidence that another career will be any better than this one. By "different industry," do you mean getting out of IT? Or do you mean getting out of where I am?

By a lot of standards, I have a better employer than most. That is one good thing I can say. I don't believe we are allowed to transfer until after a year though.

Failing that, what about studying for a qualification in something outside of your comfort zone? You sound as if you would be more than capable of achieving something which would help you move forward. If you have the time and resource it can only be a good thing.

I was once A+ Certified. I was once an MCSE--it was on NT 4.0. What qualifications do you mean? I have found that certifications are absolutely worthless.

If I believed that there was a path to IT success, I would try to get on it. If I believed that such a path existed, I would have no hope.

I honestly believe that I could be a CCIE with the right experience. I honestly believe that I could do work that would command six figures. I don't think IT work is that hard. I have never been given a chance to do challenging work. I have had a job which had a path for career growth.

I do tae kwon do. It takes 16 belt tests to get to a black belt. Nobody gets a black belt overnight. It works like this. I learn the skills to get a senior white belt. I pass the test. I learn the skills for a yellow belt. I pass the test. I learn the skills for a senior yellow belt. I pass the test.

I have never had any opportunities to go anywhere in my career. I go back and do the same stuff over and over. It is tedium, apathy, and monotony. I am sick and tired of this. I am disgusted and have every reason to be. I keep taking the same belt test, and I keep passing the same belt test.

 

[hjgoldstein]

I have no confidence that another career will be any better than this one

You're right. It may not be any better but it will be different. It sounds form your first post (leaving out the "stay alive" stuff) that you are:

a) bored;
b) unfulfilled;
c) feeling taken for granted;
d) feeling undervalued (by your employer and yourself).

What is your employer's key industry? Are there any openings (ok, after the year) internally which you could fill, maybe combining the tape-changer/intern duties with something else that they need? Speak to them and tell them how you feel. The worst they can do is say "no."

When I mentioned qualifications I meant to suggest that you study something that you can be challenged by. I completely agree that most certifications aren't worth the paper they are written on, let alone the time and effort involved. I would look for a study course in something you love, have always wanted to do, and you can then maybe plan a career change into something exciting and new.

There is no silver bullet here. Find something you can be enthusiastic about - the way you once felt about IT. To expand on your analogy: switch from Tae Kwon Do to Judo. Same belt structure, different tests.



Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957

 

[nicholasharris]

a) bored;
b) unfulfilled;
c) feeling taken for granted;
d) feeling undervalued (by your employer and yourself).

You got it.

What is your employer's key industry? Are there any openings (ok, after the year) internally which you could fill, maybe combining the tape-changer/intern duties with something else that they need? Speak to them and tell them how you feel. The worst they can do is say "no."

I actually think they would listen and care enough to consider my feelings in all this. I'm not sure what they could do though.

I keep hearing all the propaganda about how there is a "shortage of talent" in IT. And there are plenty of people who good jobs in IT who aren't that smart.

I would look for a study course in something you love, have always wanted to do, and you can then maybe plan a career change into something exciting and new.

It is hard for me to get excited about anything. I honestly don't believe that any career would be any different.

And I have tried other changes. I made a big move in 2004. I applied to the Peace Corps in 2002, but didn't get it. I remember how enthused I was about moving to a new city. When you have been enthused and disappointed as many times as I have, you eventually stop getting enthused about anything.

 

[nicholasharris]

1. Assuming you've been at your current position at least a month, have you made it clear that you are interested in EXPANDING your role and knowledge in the computer field?

I have brought up tasks that I think I could do. There are other groups who seem to have more work than they can handle. In spite of this, my team basically has to fight to get work.

When I ask other people about helping them out, I usually get the same song and dance that I always hear in this godforsaken industry: "We have lots of work. But we don't have time to train anyone who can help us." Horse manure like this is nothing in unusual, and it is a big reason why I would advise anyone to stay the hell away from it.

2. If not, are you stating in the OBJECTIVE section of your resume (if you have one) or in the cover letter for the position that you are interested in positions where you have a chance to grow your knowledge, career planning, and things like that?

Do employers read cover letters or objectives?

I used to have hope. Why do you think I lost it? I didn't just decided one day that I won't have hope anymore.

 

[stubnski]

--> We have lots of work. But we don't have time to train anyone who can help us

Are you skilled in the areas where you can help them? If you want a more fulfilling work experience then go the extra mile and get training outside of work. If you want to go into networking and become a CCIE then buy switches and routers off ebay or a simulator and start practicing, same goes for any field. Do get certified in relevant tech unless you have years and years of experience in that field.

I was in a similar situation long ago. I wasn't fulfilled in my career so I changed it by educating myself and having certs helped me get interviews since I did not have the work experience I needed. It took awhile to get a cert, get a job in that field, get the next cert, etc but step by slow step I became happy with my career.


--> Do employers read cover letters or objectives?

Yes. Whenever I interview I read everything. Be honest, be upbeat, be personable, and be knowledgeable. Having the skills is only half the requirements, you also need to fit into and work within a team.

 

[nicholasharris]

Are you skilled in the areas where you can help them? If you want a more fulfilling work experience then go the extra mile and get training outside of work. If you want to go into networking and become a CCIE then buy switches and routers off ebay or a simulator and start practicing, same goes for any field. Do get certified in relevant tech unless you have years and years of experience in that field.

I have generally found that this kind of "experience" doesn't count. It's better than none, of course. And as I said earlier, my experience with an MCSE tells me that certifications are worthless. When I was pursuing my MCSE, I committed to reading for an hour a day for about two years. I made that commitment because I believed that there would be a payoff. You've been burned once, and you don't do it again.

The only certifications that seem to have any respect in IT are ones that cost a small fortune just to test for. I think that's quite sad. A certification should be based on whether or not someone can do the work, not based on whether some can or can not afford to take the test. I have heard that the CCIE costs about $10,000 just to take the test.

 

[ousoonerjoe]

About 15 years ago I worked as a hardware tech and warranty repair counter. I taught myself basic networking, and started dabbling in programming. I found I had a knack and real love for programming and went to a 2 year school and got my Assoc. in it. After applying to over 400 different companies (it was just after the Dot.com bust and no one was hiring), I landed my first job. A year later 9/11 hit and my company lost 60% of their government contracts and I got laid off. That was another 400 resumes out with no luck. I.T. has not always been an easy path, but there are so many different avenues and fields of expertise, there is no reason to be board or disengaged unless you have no love of computers to begin with. I now work for a company that just in the last 5 years came off of a 90's Unisys Mainframe. We are archaic in our processes, but rather than focusing on what IS, I have learned to focus on what I can make it Become. I don't always ask for new tasks, I just do them. Sometimes I get popped for overreaching, but often I get praised for the ambition and motivation to identify a problem and just fix it. I volunteered for many of the "crap tasks" just to learn another little aspect and process of the company. We have a flat corporate structure here. There is nowhere for me to go unless my boss leaves or dies. But through patience and persistence, I convinced him to create a "Head of Software" position, and now I run the development team. It wasn't easy. It wasn't handed to me. It wasn't even an option up until this year.

My point is, I have had many highs with horrible lows in this career path. When even hope is lost, you simply have to fight through it and keep trying. Eventually, you will come into your own. I'm willing to bet there are many here that have similar stories in nature, but have persevered and came out on top.

Life rarely hands you the good cards. Sometimes you just have to go smack the dealer and take them from him.

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“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
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[Mountainbear]

Please don't take this as an insult. You need to seek professional help. I think it is very common for very bright people to suffer depression and feel their life is being wasted. Can you take an extended leave from work? At least 4 weeks, and do something completely different. You seem to be social with your acting and Karate. I might recommend volunteering. We all need money, but if you are just seeking to advance in your career and nothing else you will feel unfulfilled.
What would you do if you had no experience in anything but had the opportunity to learn?

 

[nicholasharris]

Please don't take this as an insult. You need to seek professional help. I think it is very common for very bright people to suffer depression and feel their life is being wasted.

I don't take it as an insult at all. I have felt that way most of my life. Work really is no different from school in that regard. It reminds me a lot of having go over times tables over and over even though I had learned them years before everyone else.

Can you take an extended leave from work? At least 4 weeks, and do something completely different.

I can't at this point. And I need about four months or more.

You seem to be social with your acting and Karate. I might recommend volunteering. We all need money, but if you are just seeking to advance in your career and nothing else you will feel unfulfilled.
What would you do if you had no experience in anything but had the opportunity to learn?

Actually, it's tae kwon do. One reason I enjoy TKD is that there are excellent teachers there, and the same goes for acting. I find excellent teachers there. These people are real mentors.

I can honestly say that I've had one person I considered a mentor. That was in 1999. That company is out of business. I'm sad to say that I've not seen him in many years.

Mentors are very rare in IT.

One big difference about acting is quite simple. ACTORS LIKE PEOPLE. They are a complete and total contrast to all the misanthropes who work in information technology. Never in my life has a group of people treated me better than the people in the local acting community. If people in IT treated me this way, I wouldn't consider leaving at all.

And I have almost no talent for acting at all. I mainly do it because it's better than any therapy anyway.

 

[edfair]

I'm at 52 years and counting and have faced some of the same frustrations. Using your skills as a volunteer for a charity would be one way to feel better about your life and might offor some opportunities to expand them.

The local United Way was one that I supported while they were transitioning from punched card accounting to mainframe and typewriters to networked PCs. My contribution was hardware support which was lacking from their suppliers (donor companies who dumped surplus equipment).

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[nicholasharris]

I'm at 52 years and counting and have faced some of the same frustrations. Using your skills as a volunteer for a charity would be one way to feel better about your life and might offer some opportunities to expand them.

Let's see. I'm writing and publishing a novel. I take martial arts and acting classes. I have a job. I work out three times a week. Just, where am I going to find the time to do this? And how is volunteering going to offer me these opportunities?

 

[johnherman]

As I stated before, but with a typo, your attitude will show. And believing that you have NO HOPE can become self-fulfilling. You do have hope, but your stubborness in believing that you have no hope is holding you back. If you can't convince yourself that you do have hope, seek help. There are self-hypnosis CD's and DVD's regarding Reaching Your Potential, Chasing Your Dreams, etc. And there are people who can help with such things as well. Personally, I prefer to save the money and get the CD's first, then consult with a professional if necessary (such as when I tried to quit smoking). Personally, I like Wendi.

http://www.wendi.com

====================================
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

 

[nicholasharris]

As I stated before, but with a typo, your attitude will show. And believing that you have NO HOPE can become self-fulfilling.

You are exactly right. I remember the exact minute. It was 8 September 1999 at 3:24 pm Eastern Time. I was happy and excited. I had a great life. Then I just decided right at that moment and said to myself: "I will no longer have any hope." I made a conscious decision then and there. It all goes back to that exact moment. Right after that, my mutual funds went down. I lost job and found another one for less money.

It all started at 3:24 on 8 September 1999. At 3:23, I had hope. At 3:25, I didn't. And just like that, everything went to hell. I ruined my entire life in just one moment.

 

[hjgoldstein]

It seems that you are in a situation which needs more specialist help than you can get from this forum.

You are not being consistent in your statements:

I have felt that way most of my life. Work really is no different from school in that regard. It reminds me a lot of having go over times tables over and over even though I had learned them years before everyone else

It all started at 3:24 on 8 September 1999. At 3:23, I had hope. At 3:25, I didn't. And just like that, everything went to hell. I ruined my entire life in just one moment.

This suggests to me that you are trying to justify your feelings by responding to others' suggestions with conflicting memories.

You appear to have a very active life outside of work - Tae Kwon Do, Acting, writing a book. Do you not take any positives out of these? Most of us have periods of not being happy at work, though we make up for it in our "real" lives. Work is, for the vast majority, a means to an end. It earns the money to pay for the good stuff.

If you are really so unhappy in your job you should actively seek an alternative. If you don't think that anything else is going to be any better - without even giving it a shot - it may be that your situation will only be improved after counselling or therapy.

Whatever you do, I wish you luck and good health.

Aspiring to mediocrity since 1957