I have a customer that I do comptuer work for but helping with voip issues. 1 modem and 2 routers.

[CPM86]

I have a customer with 2 locations that went to voip and always have issues. The final configuration for them is cable modem (port1) to router to switch to voip phones and cable modem (port2) to router to switch to Computers / Printers / etc. This is the same way at both locations.

1. The cable modem is in bridge mode
2. We did two routers. One was provided by the company who provides the pbx in the cloud and phones. The other router is just a typical Netgear and I can't remember the other one.
3. They are not having any issues with the internet during the time the phones are having issues.

They did look into early cancellation and it is $1,000 per store to early cancel. The Business Phone company who (been around for over 20 years) switched them over just did the it is your network problem
and have you IT guy fix it. I have paragraph on what I did just to get the system to run as good as it is.

I have several clients on the same cable provider with no issues. However, most of them have an in house voip pbx. Off the top of my head i can't think of any who use it with a cloud only PBX.

So any ideas of what to do?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[curlycord]

It's best to post what the issues are in order to help resolve issues.
Also post what you have tried to do to fix the issues.

What about your setup and programming? NAT, DHCP etc

Are the voip sets on their own switch? to the 2nd router?

Do the voip sets work fine when you disconnect the first router(internet)?

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http://www.curlycord.com

Toronto, Canada

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[CPM86]

I'll try to give a summary of what I remember.

The customer called up one day with tons of network issues. (I wish a customer would tell me before they do anything on the network.) The last issues I had on the network was the old router was dying and they replaced it with a Netgear router. I had to go over and put back in settings. That worked fine for months until I got the current call.
cable modem - router - and 2 switches. I can't remember if the 2 switches was changed together or not. Whatever it was worked just fine.

As for what was causing main network issues is they was plugging in voip phones and looped back the network. Causing the switch to go down. Once I resolved that. I went into the Netgear (though already known that everybody says No on Netgear for voip.) and did all the recommended settings and firmware upgrade. That did help issues. The company they are contracted with for the pbx on the cloud said all your problems would be solved with using the router they provided. Upon installing this router it did help.

So the final setup in one store was as posted above. Cable modem to router 1 and router 2. Router 1 has its own switch and router 2 has its own switch. The phones are ran though 1 switch with router the clould pbx provider said would fix issues. Then the rest if ran though the other switch with the netgear.

Aso for the other store. I can't remember if the whole network is cable modem, router, switch. But I do remember that is they are using a switch. They have a dect phone setup so only 1 base station and that goes directly into the router.

I have more notes at work on the setup. I'll look though it and post any changes.

On a side note they do run a point of sale system and it talks between the 2 stores. (not through a vpn.)

One though I came up with is the traffic from the network side without the phones is overwhelming the phone side and since the cable modem has no QOS. That is why they are having issues. But, that is why I want to double check my notes for the store with DECt sets. I think it is modem, router, phone on one port and switch on another port.

Thanks,

Josh

 

[Westi]

I always love the "the computers have no issues while the phones sound like crap" statement.

Phones are using time sensitive traffic while computers are ignoring delays and simply request packets again. People do not notice 0.5 seconds delay on a PC but phone discard it.

Multiple routers on a single connection are never recommended and also not needed, except if there is some sort of power struggle between phone people and IT people. Trying to avoid the expression pi$$ing match.
If you absolutely have to, then give them different public IP's and make sure that the modem is really in bridge mode because double NAT'ing is a killer for voice connections.

And sorry to tell you, that the phone company asked to have IT fix it, VoIP issues are ALWAYS a connection issue (well 99%)

Joe
FHandw, ACSS, ACIS

 

[CPM86]

I had to think about my response for a reply. You are correct that my distaste streams back from when ip telephony hit this area. The business phone companies was looking for and pushing the next
big product to upgrade or replace existing analog lines, pbx systems or both. Same thing happened with the cash register guys. The problem was many at that time is they found it so easy to push any problem over the the IT guy or company managing the system. Backed up with horrible hard to get out of contracts for the customer.

On a side note I was very interested in learning all about the technology. Even setup an Asterisk box at home. I also know of one place that used Cisco with T1's and Voip Trunk lines that worked fine. The other places like car dealerships did the old Analog lines to say Cisco PBX and voip phones around the store without any issues. They also had larger IT management firms on contract with them. You know the local shop charges $75.00 an hour onsite call and the other company charges $120.00. The local shop uses consumer grade equipment and the other firm uses says Cisco.

You are correct on the fight between companies and how first hand experience watch them replace a HIPAA compliance router with a store bought router at a medical office. The cherry on top is that sometimes that didn't even solve the issues. I would call them and ask them for information on any additional configurations needed or suggested when using xxx brand router or switch. It was like seeing a deer in a head light response of nothing but silence.

As for networking running just fine. You are correct on how in reality. Anything from hardware to software can cause issue that most people if they are not using something like voip are not aware of. I also think of hand held scanners, lagging in games, strange issues that show up one day. One of my personal fav. was more than once flooding the network connecting with spam or other items taking up all the bandwidth.

I don't have a good answer for the 2 routers on 1 modem in bridge mode expect as you put it. A pissing match (I agree 100%). In this case for this customer even before it ended up in that configuration. The amount of money they spent on trying to get it to work. Has turned them off to voip. They needed a new system and was sold with this idea of just easy plug the phones in and go. I admit for most places now that just happens except for the places it does not. They even had issues with a fax machine or I think was told it was not supported. Something I laughed at knowing with the correct system and provider. You have no issues running fax on voip.

I wanted to double check on connection issues as you stated. This would cover anything from the isp to the phone. Example is how the router handles the voip packets or the ISP service is flaky dropping pings when it rains. Perhaps just has long ping times. Then yes I would say connection issue.

On conclusion and you are welcome to call me out of this or any of it. It is not my job to make sure other products work even 90% Depending on some setups. I would say even less than that due to various factors out of my control. I will make sure your internet is up and all your devices is functioning within reason. If you internet goes down once a month for who knows what reason. It is not that I will not look at it. But, I'm not going to be a plug n play artist with equipment or settings. I have even taken this to my Boss and sometimes it was me and other times it was the product.

Anyway as for the other store. I checked my notes. It is cable modem in bridge mode, router (port 1 to dect ip phone) and port 2 to switch. As per what the Voip provider recommended and I concur. But, they still have issues. The router was supplied by the voip company and priorities voip packets over all other traffic. The cable modem is not known to have any issues with voip. The company they are using is (not the local business phone provider.) but the cloud pbx is Goto Connect. Maybe this will give some ideas for help.

Once again I appropriate all the help and answers,

Josh

 

[curlycord]

Unplug the Network (Internet for devices) router for awhile and see if you still have issues with the Voip side?

Have you done a speed test with a laptop on the voip switch, then the voip router? and compare it to the other side?

"The router was supplied by the voip company and priorities voip packets over all other traffic."
But the router is only used for voip sets anyways, and don't most routers have that setting?

Have you tried another router in place of the carriers?
Swapping switches maybe to see if problem stays or follows.

Make sure any SIP/ALG settings are disabled.

You need to try the simple stuff line swapping hardware, then move onto configuration.
Hire a network guru and go to site together to see that the setup is cool.

I know your response is based on memory but without proper setup details I don't know how anyone can help much further.

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http://www.curlycord.com

Toronto, Canada

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[CPM86]

This is one of the first things I do. Along with check all the equipment, firmware and against list of support or unsupported equipment. A good example is from my experience and lists is don't ever use a Netgear routers. One website lists Netgear on the list. Then under models said all of them. I just chuckled. On a side not things have improved in this area for the local cable provider and fiber optic. They support voip without an issue. I do admit in some areas though the cable speed package is great but just not reliable. Then again, the company who provides the most fiber in this area has had some interesting outages or problems (affected everything not just phones.

Bad luck with the customer. About 6 months or so before they went voip. They purchased a brand new Netgear router to replace a router that died. I can't remember what was at the other store. Since I never did a service call to that store until they had voip issues. I'm not sure what happened between my first couple of visits and them ordering the routers. I was just told they was on the way. I think it was due to one store having that Netgear router. Not sure about the other store. But they ordered 2. You are correct most routers if not all have voip setting. That the router mfg. and voip providers have settings they recommend. This is a big change from 10 years ago that didn't have any settings, or they had one on the list. Mostly Cisco.

I would hope at this point everybody knows about needing to disable that. I have a list at work to not only tell (at one time) other tech to disabled that but some also settings found on routers.

Swapping network equipment is a sore spot me. The company I work for does not keep anything in stock. We are just not that big. Most stuff that I do have is outdated.

A quick side story on my sore spot. I had a company upgrade to fiber. They had nothing but issues. Strange issues. Internet would work for a day or so and go down. But not 100% down. I could still remote into systems. I contacted the ISP and they explained it was equipment on the customer side. They ended up being correct. They are one of those companies who do not have a list of supported routers. The customer had a few routers. After updating and swapping out. The final resolve was a Sonicwall with an upgraded firmware. On a side note it did not fix the voip issue they was having.
 
Hiring a network guru is out of the question. I could go into another paragraph for that reason. Plus, I'm most of you can guess or experienced the same reasons or issues I have.

Yes, I do tests on all sides. Ping, speed, recommended voip test via voip websites among other things.

Once again, I really appreciate all the help. If I get more information, I'll update this post.

Thanks,

Josh