I found this "interesting"....

[jebenson]

I read this story over the weekend, and thought you folks might be interested as well:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070921/ap_en_ot/quote_abuse

Here's the actual blog:

http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

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[aardvark92]

That's "funny

 

[SantaMufasa]

Isn't it "funny" how many people "misuse" quotes to surround "words" to which they wish to add "special" meaning or "emphasis".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[stubnski]

I usually use quotes to make fun of something. I would use quotes on the "Security" sign to mean that the security isn't much of a security force (see - old fat guy with mace)


Stubnski

 

[philhege]

I really "like" the misuse of quotes.

 

[xwb]

I've given up on giving words "ears" ever since I started using Word which gave them left ears and right ears. Got too complicated when embedding vbscript in code, ending up with """" which looked really odd. Took ages to figure out how to switch off the left and right ears.

I just use quotes in code: otherwise I use bold/italic. At least I know the word processor is not going to try to be clever with those.

 

[BobRodes]

I do that all the time, when the word or term I'm using is more casual or "slangy" than the context in which I'm using it, or when a term is generally used in a different context than the one in which I'm using it. It has a way of changing the "flavor" of the word or term used. It's not clear to me that that's a misuse. Of course, I haven't taken your class, Mufasa.

I do have to be careful about overusing it though.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> It has a way of changing the "flavor" of the word or term used.
What does "flavor" mean in that sentence? And more to the point and the reason for the quotes, how is it different from how the word flavor would normally be used in that context?

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[BobRodes]

<What does "flavor" mean in that sentence?
I invite you to decide that for yourself.

<how is it different from how the word flavor would normally be used in that context?
How would it normally be used in that context?

 

[CajunCenturion]

Your previous post makes perfect sense without any of the quotes. Quotes change the implication of words.

==&gt; How would it normally be used in that context?
I think it would be normally used in that context without quotes, because I think the flavor of a word is its application and connotation in context. To me, the sentence makes perfect sense to me without the quotes.

By including the quotes around flavor, you've implied to me that flavor, and slangy for that matter, should mean something other than normally expected, and to be honest, I don't know that is, so I asked. What does flavor (in quotes) mean in that sentence, different from what flavor not in quotes would mean? What's the implication behind using the quotes? That's all. I'm simply trying to understand.


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[BobRodes]

<Your previous post makes perfect sense without any of the quotes.
Well, it does to me, too, but the real question is whether the use of quotes changes the connotation of the word, isn't it? If you wish to argue that the word "flavor" has a literal meaning of "application and connotation in context", when applied to the concept of word, I certainly won't disagree. However, the use of quotes, to use your words, changes the implication of the word. Using them more closely juxtaposes the sense of the word that you describe with the literal sense of the word, which is distinctions made using the physical sense of taste. This juxtaposition adds a visceral shade of meaning to the word in this context that it would not otherwise have.

I submit, then, that the word "flavor" and the word ""flavor"" have different shades of meaning, which IMO is an automatic justification for the use of either.

By the way, I used quotes around "slangy" for a different but related reason, the reason I would use them around the word "safen" (e. g. "safen" the world for democracy). I use them here to show an inflection of a word that is not in general usage, but will convey its meaning properly. (Another example: when I play pool, I have a tendency to get "scratchitis".) However, it appears that the word has fallen into general usage, and therefore the use of quotes may be somewhat archaic.

Bob

 

[CajunCenturion]

Thank you for answering. It does explain why you've chosen to use quotes. We apparently disagree on whether 'flavor' has one definition or several definitions.


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[BobRodes]

I understood from your post that you felt that there were several definitions as I have suggested. Is that not the case?

 

[CajunCenturion]

I firmly believe there are multiple definitions, and to that point, any definition is perfectly literal. However, I did not get the impression that what's you suggested. As you said,

Using them (quotes) more closely juxtaposes the sense of the word that you describe with the literal sense of the word, which is distinctions made using the physical sense of taste.

That statement implies to me that you believe there is only one literal definition of flavor and that you're using quotes around the word to distinguish it in context from that specific literal definition. That may not be what you meant, but that's how I interpreted it.

My feeling is that flavor has several literal definitions, and I expect most dictionaries will bear that out, and it should be obvious to the reader in context which one applies. The use of quotes indicates that none of the usual definitions apply, in other words, that you mean something by that word that is not in any of its normal definitions. That's whole purpose of quotes - to alert the reader that this word, in this context, means something other than what it would normally mean in that context.

The following two statements should have two different meanings for the word "flavor" because one is in quotes and other is not.

==> It has a way of changing the "flavor" of the word or term used.

==> It has a way of changing the flavor of the word or term used.

So the question is, what do the quotes mean? How do the quotes change the meaning of those two sentences?

If those two sentences mean the same thing, then the quotes should not be used. If the do mean something different, and it's the word 'flavor' that is responsible for the difference, then what's the difference?

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[ESquared]

I agree that the word flavor in that sentence shouldn't be in quotes—and there is a way without quotes to reference instead of instantiate. I can see that words do not have a literal flavor as one cannot put them in one's mouth. So if someone follows the convention that when intending the nonliteral meaning, use quotes, I can sort of see using them.

But on the other hand, nonliteral meanings seem perfectly clear to me without the quotes. I was not confused that flavor was talking about salty, sour, bitter, or sweet.

Let's try other words:

It has a way of changing the "tone" of the word or term used.
It has a way of changing the "connotation" of the word or term used.
It has a way of changing the "gist" of the word or term used.
It has a way of changing the "meaning" of the word or term used.
It has a way of changing the "implication" of the word or term used.
It has a way of changing the "feeling" of the word or term used.

In every single one of these I would avoid using the quotes. And they all leaving me wondering what meaning the writer did intend. None of them are used figuratively. None of them fit the mold of "purporting to be _____ but not really being it."

[COLOR=black #e0e0e0]For SQL and technical ideas, visit my blog, Squared Thoughts.

[sub]The best part about anything that has cheese is the cheese.[/sub][/color]

 

[drlex]

Contributors (and readers) of this thread, might find this site "interesting" and on topic:

http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/

(SFW)
lex

soi la, soi carré

 

[jebenson]

drelex,

Indeed that link is on topic...seeing as I included it in my original post.

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

Arrrr, mateys! Ye needs ta be preparin' yerselves fer Talk Like a Pirate Day!

 

[drlex]

jebenson,
Profound apologies; I'd clicked the top link but completely missed the bottom one.

Happy Friday,
lex

soi la, soi carré

 

[AnotherHiggins]

I do that all the time

Really?

When used around a word that already fits the context, quotes often convey sarcastic or ironic intention.

Your use of quotes around the word "slangy" makes sense to me because it is not a common variation of "slang". It is, however, a real word, so I'd avoid using the quotes. (Of course, my use of quotes around the word "slangy" is simply signifying that I'm quoting you - how meta can this discussion get?)

I also understand your use of quotes around "flavor". I probably wouldn't use them, but I have no problem parsing the sentence.

I would disagree with your statement that "the word "flavor" and the word ""flavor"" have different shades of meaning". ""Flavor"" has no specific meaning on it's own. Using the quotes simply suggests that it means something different than it normally would in its given context. That was clearly not your intention. Wow, I just talked myself out of accepting your use of quotes around "Flavor".

- - -

I'm digressing. The point I was trying to make is that neither of your examples are on par with some of the "talent" on display on the linked website. (See, the quotes show that I don't really mean talent.)

Look at some examples on that page.

Under a "women" sign on a bathroom door, an additional sign that says, [COLOR=blue white]No "Men" Please![/color]. The implication there is that you don't really mean men. So is the sign asking that transvestites and transgendered folks say out? I don't think that was the owner's intention.

[COLOR=blue white]Northwest "Office" Center[/color]. So they aren't really offices?

[COLOR=blue white]Home made "Soup"[/color]. That's bad advertising right there.

- - -

To sum up, be careful with extensive/incorrect use of quotes or else you could wind up looking like Joey in this clip from Friends. (It's Friday, go ahead and watch it.)

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

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[BobRodes]

<literal
I'm using the term literal to mean the meaning most closely associated with the etymological root. Perhaps it would be more precise to call it the "ur-definition."

<In every single one of these I would avoid using the quotes.
So would I. However, that doesn't imply a refutation of my stated position.

<"purporting to be _____ but not really being it."
That's precisely what I'm getting at. "Flavor" as I used the term, in quotes, changes the meaning from "characteristic or predominant quality" to (roughly) "half characteristic or predominant quality and half purporting to be the blend of taste and smell sensations evoked by a substance in the mouth without really being it."

<It has a way of changing the "flavor" of the word or term used.
I simply reiterate that using the quotes alters the meaning to some degree. This doesn't contradict any of the other points made here. Using

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/flavors

as a reference, my statement above without quotes has the meaning of definition 3a. Adding the quotes adds a distinct flavor of definitions 1a-c.

That's my position, and again I don't find anything in what has been said that suggests that it is an incorrect one.

Bob