Hunt group 8 - FAX question

[atin90]

I finally managed to do almost what I wanted but.....

I have 3 lines comming in. 2 lines are voice and the third line was originally for fax. Since we have expanded our bussiness a little we started to use line 3 to call out. Unfortunatelly, some customers then use caller ID to call back that number and untill now they got the fax - headache to them. So I modified the line 3 to use the Group call distribution GROUP 7 - VMS AA with 0 delay on Day or Night thus the call is picked up imediatelly and anouncement is made during which a Hunt Group 8 is performed to detect if the call is fax. If it is fax then the apropriate FAX machine takes over and all is fine. If the call is voice then the caller is forwarded to a voice mail box.
My question is, can I at this point have the call forwared to ring as if it was a regular voice call to all apropriate extension in a group instead of sent to voice mail box? And then if not answered with in so many rings be sent to a Voice mail box?

Pavel

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Well, the caller will need to press a selector code or dial an extension number. Or if they don't, the call will go to the Dial 0/timeout option. You don't say which voice mail you are using. You can set a selector code to go to one of the 4 calling groups (71-74), and add the extensions as members of the group. If you have Partner Messaging, you can set the Dial 0/timeout and/or the Call Answer Service Operator to the calling group. You can also set up a mailbox to cover unanswered calls to the group.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi Pavel,
Consider having your line carrier change the programming so that all lines report the same number (the lead in your hunt).
-Chris

 

[atin90]

After more testing I have discovered that most faxes that are sent using Microsoft's own FAX prog terminate as soon as the AA Voice comes on. I have only tested this on my own system Faxing from internal FAX to another FAX on the same Partner system but going trough an external number. Will this create this type of problem? By the way I also noticed by looking at the Diagnose.cid that the FAX line we use has an error - No Loop Current. What/how do I correct this and what does it do?

Pavel

 

[atin90]

Correction - The No Loop Error was an old message left in the log from last year...so ignore this portion of my previous msg.

 

[atin90]

I found the problem! It's a real stupid problem. It seems that Microsoft's own FAX program will disconect if a voice comes on. The work around was to put a 4 second pause at the start of the VMS AA message. I realize the recomended period is about 7 seconds but that is just too long and my 4 seconds seem to work. I will see if any customer complains.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Ahhhh, another Microsloppy "feature". Is there any way of turning that "feature" off?

-Chris

 

[atin90]

I do not know about any way to turn this off. I was browsing trough some web pages of makers of fax software and some indicate in their literature that even some standalone hardware faxes will behave this way. That is real unfortunate because in a small business environment, such feature as the one available in the Partner to detect fax on a voice line can potentially prevent stupid customers from faxing to the wrong number, voice number instead of fax number, which happens to us very frequently. On the other side of the coin, if a business is trying to save money by using same line for voice and fax, fax machines that will terminate connection, such is the case with the Microsoft fax, can loose some of these customers to the business.
So maybe in the future the next processor can fake ringing tone to the calling party during the fax/voice detection period.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi atin90,
It looks like you may need to install a "fax stick" or "com share" on the fax line to route those calls. It would be silly to install these on every line, but that would fix the problem. You would then have to route the fax out to a pool of lines to service the fax. Just because some people dial the wrong number with poorly designed software.
-Chris

 

[atin90]

I just do not see how this "fax stick" would be of any help since the Partner system does the same. I do not know how differently the "fax stick" operates but my logic tells me that it waits for the fax or modem tone for few seconds and if it does not hear the fax signature then it passes the call as voice. I am doing exactly the same with the Partner by allowing a few seconds of silence with the AA. The Partner does it's job just fine. The problem is not with the Partner system, since the idea here was to play the AA announcement during which the detection for fax signal is made. The problem is with the sending software and/or hardware that may, by design, disconnect when it hears this voice announcement.
.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi atin90,
Yes, it waits for the fax CNG, BUT it sends back a ring while doing so. Callers think the line is still ringing and so does the fax. (instead of detecting voice and hanging up). Don't worry, not a good solution anyway.
-Chris

 

[aarenot]

I do not have the answer for this , but I have a question. I have never had to use this function with a partner, so I do not know if it is there. If I have time I will look it up. Can the partner insert digits before the dialing out string, when a caller accesses a line and dials? If so, the telco probably has a cancel outgoing caller ID feature, which could be activated for calls going out on this line. ESI, toshiba, and some others I have worked on have this ability from way back for dialing pick codes for LD carriers,(Least cost routing). I have used this before with other systems, the telco feature code locally is *67, I think. Just a thought, then the caller, would never see the caller ID from calls going out on the voice/fax line. Eventualy they would stop calling the fax number.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi aarenot,
Only if you are using a speed dial. Many customers are starting to block blocked calls too. Hmmm.
-Chris

 

[aarenot]

I didn't think of the blocking calls thing. I suppose you could not put the line three appearance on the phone, just put a speed dial on it. I have never tried a speed dial with (Intercom803*67) before. Not sure it would work, and ALS would not work for grabbing the line then. Sounds like to much of a hassle for the customer to select the line to use it as well. Thanks for the info. ITP.

 

[itpphoneguy]

Hi aarenot,
There are times when it is less painful to say "I don't know" and back out of a painful situation. Normally it's the customers with no money or who won't do things the correct (easy) way. You can never win without a ton of effort, and sometimes it's just a lost cause to start with.
Be happy,
-Chris

 

[avayagirl]

If you have a voice mail that offers more than 1 AA- Assign a second AA to the fax line, then when you go to record the greeting of that AA you get a good quality speakerphone or a good quality recording of a phone ringing (what you hear when you call someone)
Allow that recording of the rings to be the AA greeting. Your fax program will not interpret this as human voice BUT the ACS will be looking for that CNG tone- If it is a fax - the call will be routed to the fax machine. You can program the no action/timeout to go to group 71 (or 72, 73...) and the call will ring at all phones in that group (as suggested earlier) So calls not transmitting a fax tone will be routed this way.
You may want to record a short voice message after the rings recorded with the company name and please hold or else the caller will hear the recorded rings followed by- "your call is being transferred" or some variation of that depending on system.

This may seem a little hacky but it works. If you are using PVM or an early release VS Mail- sorry- none of this applies.
Sorry so long.

 

[aarenot]

Avayagirl,
An instructor who thinks outside the box, I like that. I have had so many instructors on telephony systems answer questions in classes I was in by saying, "we do not support that function" When I knew a "hacky" way to simulate the feature desired. Thanks for your help, I think I can use this idea myself down the line. Kudos!
A few times in classes I have said see me after class for dinner,, if you pick up the check I have your unsupported solution to other companies owners, or managers. Here we do not even have to buy someone a steak. I like it here.

 

[avayagirl]

aarenot- lol-
I only go through all that trouble for the very nicest customers- and when I am teaching a class to other trainers I would never go through that scenario or I am sure I would leave them dizzy with confusion.