How to successfully go about gaining a payrise? 6

[Andreh]

In these days of more for less, low profit margins and high expectations placed on IT (not necessarily only the IT industry issue though) staff / engineers and companies, I am interested in hearing for the Tek-Tips community on methods that you have tried and have succeeded.

Personally I have asked the company owners I have worked for in the past with success, but this went over the head of my manager so may not be good for everyone.

The process of gaining a pay rise to meet the market expectations of your role is an art. The easiest way of achieving this is usually to go somewhere else but if you don't want to change companies just to reach that what are good ways to go about it?

I look forward to hearing your experiences.

 

[IT4EVR]

One thing I try to do is create a yearly "List of Accomplishments", focusing on tasks I worked on/accomplished that offered efficiencies within the department or company.

Managers are usually busy people and sometimes aren't aware of the good things you are doing there.

You also must be assertive and aggressive without seeming pushy.

Also be prepared to demonstrate how your living expenses have increased, such as commuting costs because of the rise of gas prices, etc.

Another option is to provide a salary analysis of your position in your area. You might want to use a tool like salary.com to provide a range of where your salary should fall.

Probably the biggest component in obtaining a salary increase is maintaining a good relationship with the manager.

 

[1DMF]

Managers are usually busy people and sometimes aren't aware of the good things you are doing there.

Then they are crap managers , who shouldn't be doing the job, as they obviously manage nothing!

Sometimes it has nothing to do with your job, your value, your contribution, your hard work.

If you have a knob for a manager, that is too busy to see what the people they are supose to be managing do and the hard work and value they bring, then leave, they don't deserve you as an employee, go find a company that will apreciate you and reward you.

Because no matter how good you are at your job, they will aways be crap at theirs!


"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Corran007]

1dmf, that is a very short sited view. It depends on the company a great deal. For example at my last company i did all my work for another department, HR/Payroll specifally. My IT manager was there as a paperwork and problem solving manager. I sent her what i had accomplished weekly since she was not directly involved in my day to day work. All my tasking came from HR itself as well as things i came up with to help HR. She had her own work to do as well as managening people. The only reason i sent her status resports was she had monthly status reports to her boss on her depts accomplishments.

Manageing people is often a secondary position nowdays. The actual work the person accomplishes is usually more important. The days of just managing people is mostly gone. The size of your staff can also be important.

 

[1DMF]

Corran007 - not shortsighted, I'm speaking from experience.

I just hope Andreh doesn't work for a rubbish , un-rewarding, abuse its staff company like I work for.

But in my experience a good company to work for is few and far between.

So I wish her the best of luck, but don't get your hopes up, sometimes the only way to get results is to go else where, just like our Director of Sales & Marketing has, our Office Manager / Company Secretary has and now our Accounts Manager has and I'm soon about too, we can't all be wrong and shortsighted!!!!

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[MDXer]

1DMF, your shortsigntedness comes from a blanket comparrison of other companies to yours. Yes there are many more companies that people would rather not have worked at than companies they would go back to work at. Sometimes it is managements inability to see the actual value of it's employees especially those who it appears to not contribute to the revenue stream. However there are many other reasons that companies can't or don't pay what people believe they are worth. Reasons such as company size, location, market all play important factors in determing what a company can and will pay for talent.

For example in my location and market, my company competes with billion dollar companies and quite successfully, however we compete in just a small portion of that industry and are probably a hundreth of the size in both clients and employees. It doesn't mean that in this point of time that since I don't make the 30% more I could at one of those companies and the 40% more salary.com says I should make that I will get it with this company. I make a concious decision every day to continue where I am, granted my situation may be extremely different than many but it does demonstrate reasons that I don't. When I have interviewed people from those other companies who are intrested in joining my company I find it comical at the salaries they get and or want for the amount of experience they have 3year MS SQL developers for 100K?

In my opnion some people have a warped sense of what they should be making in todays market place. We no longer have the dot.com and IT boom where people demanded and often got 6 figure salaries with thousands more in benefits.


Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[mmorancbt]

In relation to 1DMF's response - a job is simply an agreement between two parties to trade something of value. You are not a servant - you choose to work where you work. If you don't like the agreement you have selected, either change it where you work or find a new agreement.

Also, it is always interesting to hear people talk about how every place they work or every manager they have had - is stupid/greedy/_fill_in_the_whine_ here.

I hope I have done better to explain to my kids if there are many, many, many people that you relate with who are a problem, the problem is typically you.

As far as getting a raise- your cost of living should not be a negotiating factor - unless what you want is a 2-4% cost of living increase.

Instead, you need an income goal and need to establish and understand the value you bring the organization. Working hard is not the value. Working hard and smart with clear and presentable value to the organization is what you need.

Also, be ready to think outside the box a little. Be creative in leveraging value. I found, when I was an employee, that I could propose a raise based on some key objectives being met. When I received agreement on the outcomes, I put my head down and worked to achieve them.

I never put a raise in front of responsibility or work - meaning, the phrase "that isn't my job" was and still is foreign to me. I still hear it from people, however. Which is incredible to me.

Companies want value - it is the only thing worth something to them (as it should be). Management is typically competent and wants employees to succeed. Beware the Us versus Them mentality - it is a poison - avoid it at all cost.

Good luck.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[Andreh]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

1DMF, I don't currently work for a bad company. I however in my first job in the IT industry did work for a manager / company like that so it makes sense (I have the experience now myself ). Unless you have been in a situation like that you really can't understand. Being the first step into the IT industry at the time is can also affect your mental state quite a bit. Leaving that place was one of the best thing I have ever done and sometimes the best option. Looking at it positively, it did make me very mentally strong allowing me to copy with the consultancy role I have today.

I started this post to sort of being a help for the people out there that don't really know about the process (like me 5 years ago). I also think I am currently being under paid for what I do and am looking for 'outside my square' ideas to improve this. Not to mention that you can always improve these skills.

So far the contributions are very good - keep it going guys.


"Assumption is the mother of all f#%kups!

 

[1DMF]

Glad to hear it Andreh, and am glad you understand where i'm coming from. I didn't mean to be-little your talent or worth, just a warning to not get your hopes up to high, it can be a long way down ;-)

mmorancbt - You're assuming everone has a contract and is doing the job they were employed to do and that they live in a place awash with other jobs to pick and choose from.

If only it was that simple, how about this scenario, you work for a pharmacutical company as a toilet cleaner, over time the fact you have a degree in chemistry and your apptitude for the work they do shone through, so they decided to move you to a drugs research position, but still paid you the salary as a toilet cleaner.

In these situations don't you think they should be paid for the job they are doing , not the job they were employed to do ?



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[mmorancbt]

1DMF - I'm not even sure how to respond. I certainly am not assuming you have necessarily have a contract or that you are doing the job you were employed to do. In fact, I think my post alludes to a situation exactly opposite of that. That is why I suggest doing work that is not part of your job description, create value, and use that to "adjust your agreement."

Also, I did not make an assumption that you are in a locale awash with jobs. Although, I will suggest that any reasonable sized city in the U.S. at least certainly has opportunity.

Let's, however, assume that the economy is in complete shambles (it isn't but lets assume). The truth still applies. If you go to work for someone, you have agreed to the pay and the situation. If you want it to be different, don't stay there.

I'm not indicating it is easy - or that it is fast - or anything - just that you have to make moves if you want things to change.

I've been an employee at a very large corporation where they had the rigid HR - pay based on time/tenure grid, etc. I decided, while I was there, that I would make moves outside that grid. I worked with managment, created a deal that involved raises that were adequate, and performed.

Later, when I wanted to earn more, I left and found the opportunity that allowed me to work on the type of projects I wanted and paid me what I wanted.

Don't assume that I sit around and opportunity just falls into my lap. I actively create a plan of action and than work to make that plan come to fruition. Sometimes it works perfectly, other times it does not. When it does, great, I make the next plan. When it doesn't I try to analyze what didn't work.

Sometimes it is a bad plan, other times it is bad luck, other times it is just the way it is. Either way, I adjust or change the plan and then start working it again.

You are responsible for creating and fostering opportunities, being prepared for those opportunities that come your way, and dealing with the inevitable hard knocks that we create or that we are unfortunate enough to come into contact with.

The only assumption I make is that everyone is responsible for their Economy of One. You, on the other hand, assume that over 20 years I've never had a difficult job or career situation. The truth is that everyone does. Everyone will experience a difficult career sitation. Now that we know that none of us are special for going through a difficult career situation, now what?

A woman my wife knows and her husband have the tendancy to complain - about everything. The day I met him he had been slightly inconvenienced about something (we will call it life), he was in a huff. She said to me, "well you met my husband but not in the best circumstances. But I can understand why he is angry, he thought he was going to have a day to do nothing."

I said, "Tell him to get over it."

She asked me, "Don't you get upset about things."

I told her that I didn't. Certainly for no longer than 5 minutes. I explained that it is inefficient.

I actually believe that a poor attitude toward situations and people is one step below murder. If I get to wake up with another day - another opportunity - it is a slap in the face of God for me to squander it and to infect others with a bad attitude.

Is it something you can fix? Is it something you want to or should be fixed? If the answer to either of these questions is no, you had better learn to live with whatever it is. But, if the answer to either question is yes, make a plan and change it.

I am not speaking about catastrophic events - loss of life, child, etc. But car accidents (without injury), the plumbing going out, having to restart a career, meeting and working with difficult people, etc. Those are the normal things that make up life.

It always comes down to the same question.. Now what?

Bad job/bad employer? Now what?

Your car breaks down? Now what?

Believe me, I am not talking about an empty "Positive Mental Attitude" or "Believe It and You Will Acheive It" platitude. Postive Mental Attitude or Belief - without a directed, focused, plan of action, is useless. If you cannot see out of your current situation and can't make the plan you need to, seek help. Find a mentor (one who doesn't allow excuses and doesn't commiserate) who will push you. One who, when faced with you rationalizing or complaining focuses you back on those things in your control.

Now what?

Or, simply stay where you are, a victim of a bad employer, the economy, the president, Enron, the stock market, the congress, your spouse, your health, (add your villain du jour here), etc. There are a ton of them, you can choose your excuses from a veritable smorgasborg - and you will have plenty of company.

But don't assume that I - or anyone else who is achieving things at some level - haven't and do not deal with adversity. Adversity is the norm. Like the bumper sticker says, "stuff happens."

Now what?

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[1DMF]

lol - you've made me feel better already, I'm still poor, but happier, have a star!

You're right of course, I am a victim of my own acceptance of the situation and the fear of change, trapped by misfortune and lack self beleif to make things happen.

Maybe i'm not worth jack! what if I move and find i've jumped from frying pan to fire, I could loose more than I currently have looking for greener grass the other side of the fence.

Or maybe I just like moaning!

well us brits are a sinicle bunch and moan about everything, hey wait a minute....

Underpaid, Overworked and Peed off - hmmmm sounds like actually i'm just Mr average afterall.

I guess the difference with Andreh and me is, she wants more money - I want out



"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[Corran007]

I agree completly mmorancbt. The people i find the most annoying are the ones who complain about everything and do nothing to improve anything. I myself complain perhaps more than i should, course its usually only the really minor things. My wife says its just since i dont have anything big to complain about. However i tend to be proactive in fixing as much as i can. Ive taken my lumps from speaking up but ive felt better about them. Even lost my job over one, but that was mainly since i spoiled thier downsizing plans ahead of time. I just was included in the layoffs instead of being reassigned.

My personal philosopy is you can complain about something once. Then i expect you to go fix it. If your unwilling to do so, i dont want to hear it again. "i dont like my job", find another job. I dont like X and theres nothign i can do. There is always something that you can do. It may not pay immidiate rewards, but will in the long term if persued with constant viligance. They may actually take work. That seems to be something ive noticed with alot of people that complain alot. A great deal of them dont want to work for it, they would rather just complain and hope someone else fixes it or it fixes itself. I dont I truely believe life is what you make it.

 

[mmorancbt]

Thanks. I'm not trying to be difficult or unsympathetic - well, maybe a little unsympathetic...

As a final and then I have to complete two articles today...

Get a copy of "The Traveler's Gift".

It is a book I found interesting and helpful.

Secondly, I am quite serious when I suggest finding a mentor. No man or woman is an island. The self-made man is a myth - we all learn and lean on someone - stretch yourself by approaching someone who makes you uncomfortable - not by his or her demeanor but by their attitude and success.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[ITGUY53]

Andreh-

i have found out that threatening to quit your job really helps in getting a raise! also job hopping is another route as well. although i don't highly recommend it in how i would go about it. the reason why i say this is make sure you're kind of indespensible. we're all indespensible, but when you have a very specialized skill and security clearance then you can negotiate easily or even threaten!

 

[MDXer]

Threatening to quit in my opinion is the worst way to go about getting a raise. As soon as someone makes that move with me, I start looking for new candidates that way next time it happens I can easily say BYE!

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[kHz]

Threaten to quit? ANYONE is replaceable. That is ridiculous unless you already have another job. And even if you did have another job, staying wouldn't be in your best interest either.

 

[Andreh]

Threaten to quit might be appropriate if you have unique skills that cannot be found all that simply. Not that I have ever really though my skill have been that unique, but I have definitely though of doing it some times haha.

I think that if you do this though, your superiors will not have that much faith in you as they think that you will have one foot out the door so to speak - when some important work comes along that he/she may have assigned to you. It could also make them act even more negatively. Thanks for the tip though, it could be used as an option.


"Assumption is the mother of all f#%kups!

 

[mmorancbt]

Threatening to quit is definately not a job raise strategy.

However, I will give this caveat - that looks and feels somewhat similar.

I have always advocated having an open discussion on value and desired income with your employer. If it was explained that x income is "impossible" - I would start looking (assuming you know your value). If they indicated that yes, x salary is possible and here is what you would have to do to get there, I would work towards that level of production (within reason).

If you attain that level and beyond, I would then go to them for the compensation. If they did not meet it, once again, look elsewhere.

I have had a counter come in after doing exactly that - 2 times in 6 years - for 24% one time, for 30% the next. And my working relationship was always friendly and professional.

And before I hear the "greedy corporation trying to keep you down" stuff, I chalk it up to a realistic assessment of the replacement cost of talent.

But for me, transparency has always been a big part of my career strategy. When I started with a company, I was very straight-forward with my professionald and income objectives. It was never a surprise what I was planning on earning or doing.

I wouldn't call that threatening to quit. When I expressed that I was going to look for employment elsewhere, I was 100% sure that I would be leaving. I did not yell, scream, complain, or even feel a sense of anger or loss. My boss knew and understood my goals and initially felt they could not be met in that role/position. Both raises involved a significant title change - although what I did functionally largely remained the same.

Later, when another significant opportunity came, I gave notice and told them that I did not want them to counter. I did offer to come back as a consultant - which I did for several years.

Never "threaten" to quit. However, if you have provided value and there is a reasonable expection of additionally compensation which is unmet, simply explain your position and look for opportunity elsewhere.

Matthew Moran (career blog and podcast below)
Career Advice with Attitude for the IT Pro

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career

http://techcareerconsult.blogspot.com

 

[1DMF]

Well said Matthew

"In complete darkness we are all the same, only our knowledge and wisdom separates us, don't let your eyes deceive you.

 

[ITGUY53]

my theory has just been tested and proven between a couple of people i know. just this past couple of days there is this guy i work with who has a top secret clearance. mind you that we all have a special skills that no general IT experience can teach you other than the fact that you learn that on the job. sure it helps to have some IT experience, but it can only take you so far.

as my theory has been tested. a coworker is REALLY wanting to leave. given his two notice and now has only about 1 week left. he's been recieving phone calls from the project manager and program manager asking what can the company do to keep him. of course he's wanting to get out of the country and have nothing to do with it, but they're willing to throw more money into his account if he stays.

you see, it all depends on what type of skill you have, type of security clearance, and how well they like you. if you can harness all the 3 and then some... you can see a nice raise! do you have that?

i would do the same, but honestly i'm quite happy as to how much i make,

itguy53