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how to store common web content separately

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redss

redss

Programmer
Oct 20, 2002
195
I have several web pages that all share the same graphical menu on top and the left, and I want to store that common html in its own file and include a reference to it in my content pages.

what is the easiest way to do that and be able to preview the completed pages in my browser? (without using php/asp/cfm, etc)

I am under the understanding that server side includes require the use of a web server to populate with the contents of the included file (making local preview difficult when not connected to the server), and besides, most websites I see have a .html extension not .shtml extension, so what technique are they using so that all the pages don't have to be individually updated when the top menu needs to be changed?
 
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CliveC

You have totally missed my point.

A search engine hitting a normally framed page sees only the content in that frame, therfor missing the content that is in the other 2 frames. When this happens, instead of the SE seeing all the content together and ranking against that, it is ranking based on 1/3 of the page makeup.

Edward

I might have missed something but wouldn't you have been better searching and replacing the html code to change it rather than dealing with images as well? I just don't see where the image map helped you.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie,

As I already indicated I have a practical example that proves my point. It proves my point because if you could see how search engines have listed the site you would see that they have no problems with it and indeed it has a top rating.

If you want to see it let me know.

Clive
 
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Hi Clive,

No matter how you look at it, your site is no higher in the engines because it uses frames, but it will likley be acheiving a lower target than it would be with a single content page getting spidered.

Granted, your site may be at #1 in the engines but I guarantee I could re-create the same page without frames and get a higher ranking than the site you currently have up if all other factors were the same.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie,

As you well know, you should not be promoting your services here. However, if I ever want better than #1 ranking i will call you. :)

Clive
 
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Clive

Presumably if you're trying to avoid deep-linking, you won't WANT search engines to spider your site anyway.

-- Chris Hunt
Extra Connections Ltd

The real world's OK for a visit, but you wouldn't want to LIVE there!
 
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CliveC,

It would be pretty pointless advertising my services when I mention in the same sentance that all I would do is create the same page without frames. [wink]

I see it from the exact same way as Chris. If you allow search engines to spider each page on your site then why stop a user from bookmarking? The SE would list those pages anyway, so a click from the SE results would take you directly to those pages.

If you wanted to stop deep linking, the only effective way to do this would be to add a server-side referrer check and if it wasn't your site, then redirect to the page you want them to start at. But remember, the Inertnet is not a book like a lot of people think. [wink]

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie: Edward, I might have missed something but wouldn't you have been better searching and replacing the html code to change it rather than dealing with images as well? I just don't see where the image map helped you."

Yup, in the original post: "...that all share the same graphical menu on top and the left..."

This is how I solved the graphical menu thing.

And if the graphical menu doesn't change or changes only very rarely, then this is just that much better, as it adds to the visual consistency of a site.

Cheers,


[monkey] Edward [monkey]

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door
 
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Wullie,

I will be visiting the UK later in the year. Maybe we could get together over a couple of pints and I think you would be able to see my points a little better! :)

Clive
 
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The noframes tag HAS A practical purpose (as I have a phone that has a text web browser)... Moreover, PDAs, Mobiles and stuck in the mud LYNX users (which I am sometimes) still like TEXT instead of graphics. Next you'll say the ALT tag is OPTIONAL, as no one will ever see them.

Anything Clientside is a good reason for more people to leave your site. DHTML is another reason people will leave your site. If your graphics are not clearly marked WITH TEXT, and HAVE ALT TAGS, more people will leave your site. There are people who still use early versions of Netscape, Opera and other unusal browsers. There are still people who use text only browsers. There is an increasing segment of the population that reads websites with a hand-held device, most of which do not support graphic or frames. What ever you do, test it with Lynx and early versions of Netscape as well as your precious IE.

If it's something as important as navigation, it should be serverside.
 
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jstreich,

While I agree with what you are saying about handheld devices, I don't agree about the "other unusual browsers".

Unless your target audience is likely to be using a really old browser or an unusual one, it is not practical to test every site with every browser out there and recode to make sure it works.

There are hundreds (possibly thousands) of browsers out there, you cannot posssibly get your site to work correctly in all of them unless it is only textual content.

If you have 5 page views from a certain browser per year, it would not be good business sense to spend time coding especially for that browser.

Hope this helps


Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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First of all this has gone way off thread. The originator of the thread asked for a means of non-server-side navigation.

This forum is for HTML & CSS which are widely used outside of the web and which do not require a web-server. Even when it is used on the web, it is not everyones "Holy Grail" to want to be highly ranked on search engines or get lots of hits to their site. In fact some people do not want their sites to be found.

If we all had to code to the lowest level of device or browser available the web would be a very poor place to visit.


Clive
 
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CliveC,

One of the good things about TT is how quickly a discussion can turn to something else. You put forward the argument about frames and we are discussing the possible flaws in this, so it does still relate to the original post.

If we all had to code to the lowest level of device or browser available the web would be a very poor place to visit.

Thats not true. It is very easy to code a page that does a server-side browser and platform check and shows content based on that, the problem is that the time involved makes it not practical. If you had the time and did this then it in no way means that your site would be a poor place to visit.

In a previous post you said:

The noframes tag has no practical purpose as all modern browsers handle framesets.

jstreich replied to that comment.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie, You seem to just like to be argumentative. If people coded the noframes tag to lead to noframes content then that would be one thing. However most often it leads to a message that "frames are required". Even program product like Frontpage put that as default text in the noframes tag.

My basic point is that TT in its wisdom chose to have a forum for HTML & CSS, separate from a forum on Web Development and HTML does not have to be on the web or even on a web server.

Clive
 
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CliveC,

There is putting a point across, and there is being argumentative, every post I have been putting my point across.

I don't like seeing information posted in this forum that when read by a newbie could lead them into a solution that they thing is the right way to go ahead with, when in fact it may be doing them more harm than good.

Having a discussion about the possible flaws allows them to choose for themselves. Afterall, this thread is not just for the original question asker, it could be used as a reference for anyone else with similar questions.

The correct use for the noframes tag is to display content to browsers that cannot render frames, you have hit the exact point I meant about people using frames wrong.

Frontpage is a crap editor, there are loads of things it does wrong or the difficult way.

My basic point is that TT in its wisdom chose to have a forum for HTML & CSS, separate from a forum on Web Development and HTML does not have to be on the web or even on a web server.

A lot of the forums cross here. Anyone looking for a solution and ruling out any solution that they could possibly use to do it would be stupid. A good programmer or designer will use all options available to get the best solution.

Just a few minutes ago I read a solution that you posted in this forum using javascript, so you obviously see the cross nature of certain forums yourself.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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Wullie,
As was pointed out in an old Monty Python sketch, "Argument is not the automatic nay-saying of anything that someone else says." I offered you empirical data to support my view that framesets do not necessarily cause problems with search engines and you chose not to view it. Had I posted the link you or someone else would have probably red-flagged the post causing the whole thread to be lost.

Clive
 
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very interesting discussion we have going on here. My preference is still frames because in a non-frames browser, even when the images are cached its nearly as effortless a transition as frameas, when you're surfing between different pages. But if a client wants dhtml menus then frames are not an easy solution. Plus, I just think frames look cool!

Wullie, speaking of DHTML, I noticed the 2nd link on your signature has a neat DHTML menu, but if a visitor is using NS4.7, they are stuck in the mud. So I assume this website would only be of value to those surfing with the very latest & greatest? Some javascript browser conditional branches might be appropriate there to keep the menu navigable, just my observation... [wink]
 
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CliveC,

I wouldn't have flagged the post, and nobody else would have had a valid reason to do so if you posted the link here. The reason I didn't ask for the link was that I assumed you mean't your own site, which I have seen already.

redss

My site is currently being rebuilt, I am trying to phase into the new sites pages as the urls are changing. Up until a few weeks ago there were links to the pages for browsers that didn't support that menu. I hate changing the urls of pages but this time it is necessary for what I need to do.

The new version of my site will show different navigation based on what browser and also what that browser supports.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
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The reason I didn't ask for the link was that I assumed you mean't your own site, which I have seen already.

I didn't visit the site, I just assumed that was the one you meant. I have seen the site previously and didn't bother looking again.

Hope this helps

Wullie


The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change.
The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
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