How to start out in webdesign 6

[mirabai]

Ok this may be a dumb question, but I would like to know anyhow:

Has anyone had any success in getting small contracts by going through local online job boards for their community, and finding email addresses and emailing the owners of companies and pointing them to webaddresses for their website designing and desktop publishing?

And another question is: Do you have to be a stupendous graphic artist to get any jobs?? (Like some of those webdesign firms you see on elance.com?)

And my final question is:
Is it enough to be able to do simple websites and desktop publishing, OR: does a person *have to* know flash.....and cc+ and all the other complicated things to be able to make even a small and meager living from small offsite contracts??

Thanks for your input!

 

[xutopia]

to make a living that is worth living you will want higher education.

Things that may seem complicated are to be taken a step at a time.

I had two friends doing HTML. I didn't dare touch it for 4 months because I was scared thinking it was too hard and I would never be good at it anyway. Finally after four months I took a look at it and didn't find it that hard.

Eventually I understood HTML well enough. JavaScript got my interest. Then DHTML. People started noticing that I had a -nice- web page and what I never dreamt of doing finally was coming naturally for me. JS > PHP > Perl > Java.

In web design you need to create a portfolio. Learning HTML is great but don't be scared to learn new things. Often reading a reference even if you don't understand it the first time can really bring you great knowledge (I read a reference book for all HTML tags). try out things you don't know about. (I recommend downloading a web GUI program with help files that reference HTML, JS, CSS)

Also something that can help to create a portfolio is doing a couple web sites volunteerly. They don't ask much from you when you do something for free and it gives you lots of chances to try out things you don't know yet about.

Must read books (online version available, I liked the online version so much I bought the real book) yale web style guide.

http://info.med.yale.edu/caim/manual/

other interesting web sites :

http://www.webreference.com

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp

and last but not least :

http://www.tek-tips.com

I wish I had tek-tips when I started out in web design.

Hope this helps. (PS the yale web style guide is a must for anyone that wants to create something professional)


Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[jacktripper]

Regarding Question 1:
I've personally never had much luck randomly emailing local businesses and trying to get contract work. Most of the freelance work i've done has always been through friends of friends of friends, and they set me up for a website job. Contacts are the key, but its random and often inconsistent.

Question 2:
No, you don't need to be a stupendous graphic artist. I don't have a dislike for the graphic artist profession, but it does puzzle me. Its very very common for a company to hire an artist to design a web site, but a few months later the company will request massive changes from the web development group, because they don't want to pay the artist to redo everything. Its a bit of a catch 22.

Anyway, its good to have a general concept of how professional sites should look. Basically it boils down to a client's needs. More graphically interesting, artistic sites cost more time and money. Its their choice.

Question 3:
I make a small and meager living doing web development. I don't know much about C++, but its a challenge to get a job knowing only HTML. You should at least be comfortable with javascripts, vbscripts, cgi, asp, php, css, and a few others regarding databases, such as sql and access. The great thing about web design programming is that many solutions to problems can be found online (like in this forum), so don't sweat it too much. Help is always available. Just exaggerate your resume a tad, and learn as you go. Researching how to solve problems is probably the most important skill, regardless of what language you use.

Good luck.

 

[chromonium]

well I think it's a good Idea to what youre doing before you set up your own business.

When you hasve mastered HTML, then JavaScript, then DHTML, then scerver side scripts you would be able to cope with clients. After all you dont want to send a client away because they want something like a email form do you? No, because they'll go to someone else who'll tell them that it is very easy to make an email form.

In the past if a client needed lets say databases and I didnt know, over night I would read as many manuals as possible adn the next day I'd know. Even so you dont want to call yourself a website designer when you cant design websites do you? Because then you will be putting down good designers.

Good luck

adam

 

[Wullie]

Hi all,

Ok, I am going to be the one that disagrees with the other posts in this thread, the only post that seems to be totally relevant to this situation is xutopia's.

jacktripper

You should at least be comfortable with javascripts, vbscripts, cgi, asp, php, css, and a few others regarding databases, such as sql and access.

One simple question.. Why?? We are talking about simple websites here and even then, there are no reason to know all of these languages to make a website. Why does he need knowledge of all of those languages when a few of them are so similar and can do the same tasks.

chromonium

After all you dont want to send a client away because they want something like a email form do you?

What about all the free scripts out there? Again, we are talking about simple websites here and any cgi etc, could easily be found on the net.

Hope this helps Wullie

http://www.freshlookdesign.co.uk

http://www.searchit-now.co.uk

http://www.survivorhelp.co.uk

 

[onpnt]

I'm agreeing with wullie here I think on both points made.
I started a web design business a year ago and I knew HTML and some javascript.
(which as been all small contracts to answer ? one)
I threw myself into it from writing VB applications for businesses and to be honest was lost "BUT", I as chromonium said,
if someone wanted something I didn't know, that night, week... I would learn it.
The higher education comment is very true but should not stop you from starting. I started programming long before I went back to school. If you want a job in a company, unfortunetly knowing how to do it doesn't usually cut it without the degree.

As far as even needing to know how to program to be a web designer...I say a big NO to that one. I have a friend that has been designing sites for over five years now and she still doesn't know what concatination means. Everything comes from scripts online or she'll call me up or other programmers she knows. Needless to say she's not poor doing what she does either.

I have the poorest graphic skills on the web probably and I do alright to give you a example of that one.

I also do 95% of my work in NotePad to give you a idea of what you need regarding Flash etc.. I may not get it the 1st or 2nd time,
but how sweet that 15th time can be.

 

[chromonium]

well, yes okay I get your point, well made.

However one cannot call himself a driver if he only knows how to start the ignition, is this not true?

I've had a bad experience with so called website designers who charge masses for nothing, with little design skills etc. What ennoys me is that people that do this put down everyone else that has some skills.

Go to

http://www.soft-options.co.uk

for instance, what a laugh!

regards

adam

 

[Wullie]

LOL... Nice site..

My biggest local competitor is on the same lines as that, he even boasts about using email and dial up access as his qualification's..

Thats where I visit when I get depressed.. Wullie

http://www.freshlookdesign.co.uk

http://www.searchit-now.co.uk

http://www.survivorhelp.co.uk

 

[onpnt]

wullie, If that's your biggest local competitor, you must be getting to retirement status on income by now. considering the choices people would have.

chromonium: I like your point you made here. The example needless to say gave me a good laugh for the weekend. I just don't want anyone to be discouraged if they are not sure on their abilities. I still only charge about half of my clients money for helping them out due to the thinking of not sure of my abilities. I may not get it the 1st or 2nd time,
but how sweet that 15th time can be.

 

[Tina2002]

Ok, thanks for the input .....

My major concern is basically getting clients in now, and don't know whether to spend the money on advertising or what. Our yellow pages are full of numbers that are no longer in service - that tells me lots and lots of people fail to bring in *any* money.

Seeing's as I am not that bad of a designer or writer (compared to an example I just saw), and also my prices are **VERY** reasonable (they *can't* get any lower), maybe I do have a shot at this.

However, I have done a few trial runs at getting clients in a couple different ways, and the results have been zero basically.

1) Over the internet I have emailed a few pple who I thought may have needed a simple website (they were advertising properties without webpages) - and twice now I got zip in response. I emailed around 50 people in my hometown alone. (And yes I pointed them to a nifty website of mine.)

2) I faxed a couple hundred local businesses in my area introducing my services - and got zip in response.

3) I cold-called a couple temp agencies, then emailed them my portfolio of examples, and haven't got a response either...(my examples are not on a dotcom though - they are simply on geocities on a page titled "Portfolio&quot

4) I ran into a designer who was icq'ing pple on the net for small jobs and talked to him about possibly me doing a bit of some of his overflow work - he said he was sooooo frustrated coz he had to keep giving away lots of his graphic art in order to turn a buck..........

5) I called and emailed local design firms (who have been advertising in the local papers for a couple of years so I basically assume they must be bringing in enough clients to survive) and submitted some of my examples (which I thought were not garbage) and they said they didn't have enough work to share........

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

As far as online advertising goes:
I understand that business over the internet is waaaay harder than in real life - ppl just don't want to let go that credit card number on the net. Also there is just so much competition over the internet that I don't think it would be possible to get any jobs unless I was in the same league as some of those design firms on elance.com; and unless I get an average of 200 hits per day or more.

And I am assuming I need more than 200 hits per day - maybe I need close to 1000 hits per day before I get a single client *mildly* interested. Am I right about that?
And I am also assuming that website design firms generate less than 200 hits per day even if they are well marketed. Am I wrong about that?

I personally love to do websites (and am not that bad either) and desktop publishing, but so far have not really managed to land much work at it.

I am curious about what the offline marketing stats are - do I have to email, fax and cold call close to 1000 people per day to get a sale of any kind?? Or spend $500 and up per month in yellow pages advertising to get anywhwere?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ok - that was a looooong winded one...........hope u guyz don't mind

Again, thanks for your input........

 

[Wullie]

onpnt,

I wish!!

A lot of small business' think that any website will do, they don't realise that you get what you pay for.

Later, they realise and that is where I make the money as they come to me for a redesign.

One recent client was telling me about an email form that he had on his site for visitors to request details of the services, when he received the email, it was in the format of:

A7: Text
A2: Text
U3: Text etc etc.

Every email he got, he had to return to the site and try to work out what field was what. I showed him a layout of the emails that he would get if I designed the site, (Using Tsdragons program ) and he was highly impressed as the current designer had told him that the way he did it was the only way possible.

Needless to say, that I now do any work for that client.

But, still so many people use this guy to design their site, if yuo saw his sites that he designed you would see where I was coming from.. There is at least one animated gif of a hand that appears on every single site that he has designed. This is not a nice looking image either, you will likely have seen it before as it seems to be on every amateur site on the net.

This guy, claims to have made some high profile sites, when you visit the sites, they all have other designers logos or links on them.

Yet, people still go to them because he is cheaper. LOL

BTW.. Just incase anyone wondered, the program mentioned is not free but is well worth the small price. It is by a fellow member on TT .

http://www.bydisn.com

(Just had to get a plug in somewhere )

Hope this helps Wullie

http://www.freshlookdesign.co.uk

http://www.searchit-now.co.uk

http://www.survivorhelp.co.uk

 

[Ecaboodle]

Have joined this forum just like 'mirabai', im looking to design webpages. Think that some of the comments in this post are well worth reading. So many thanks to all.

First tries:

http://www.all-comp.co.uk

http://www.citytocities.com

If you can't fix it in 20 minutes call someone who can.

 

[backspin]

I've been a freelance graphic designer for 3 years, & just started doing web sites about a year ago. Getting clients is *hard*. At least for me.

The most effective way I've found of getting new clients is through referrals. I joined a business networking group in my city which meets every week for the sole purpose of finding clients for each others' businesses (no competing businesses allowed in the group). It's been very effective. Actually, it's an international organzation; there may be a chapter near you. It's call Business Network International, or BNI.

Tell your friends about your work, make sure you mention it when you meet people at a party, etc. Always carry business cards with you; I also carry demo discs that run a slide show of my portfolio.

Once you have a few clients, ask them if they can refer you to anyone who might have need of your services.

It's not easy to work on your own, but there are some great things about it too! Good luck to you!

 

[xutopia]

I give a star to backspin because he mentions networking and how important it is.

I got my first contract because I could offer to do the project in two languages English and French in collaboration with my licensed translator. In canada that sells. All I did was call a translator I knew and asked her if she was available if I got the contract. She said yes so I included her resume in the proposal. I'm confident my skills had to do with it but the fact that I had an edge over the competition was having her "on-board" for the project.

Of course I charged 10% more for translation then what my translator charged so I even made a profit on translating, something that I couldn't have done if I hadn't included her in my proposal.

Do have a network of freelancers that can do other tasks you cannot personally do or don't want to do. This way you offer more just by knowing more people. Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran