How to make sense of it all? 1

[xomp]

I'm interested in programming in SQL but find a few key area's to be unexplained. First off I would like to design/code databases but don't know where to start to do this!

Would I need MS SQL Server 2005 to do this or just notepad or something?

Thanks

 

[genomon]

For what it's worth, formal education is not high on the list of qualifications I look for in prospective hires.
Also, xomp, there are a couple good discussions regarding this going on right now in forum654 .

"Teamwork means never having to take all the blame yourself."

 

[SQLDenis]

some people don't know basic math

here are some examples

return rows when the difference between 2 values is 10%
check if something is divisible by something else

there are people here asking these question

not to discourage you but I have interviewed a lot of people...50% of these never heard of SQL injection, one of them was an we developer/architect with 10 years experience and he wanted $130 per hour

It is alway a good thing to learn stuff on your own, I always ask people what the favorite book/website/blog is
I also ask what they don't like in the product

If you don't have real experience what will be on your resume?

I also ask people what their biggest table is, Some person boasted how their table was enormous with 50000 rows, I almost started laughing we generate that much data every 15 minutes every day

it all depends if it is a small company you might get hired if it is a company with terabyte size DBs I doubt it, this a whole new level all together and performance becomes crucial



Denis The SQL Menace
--------------------
SQL Server Code,Tips and Tricks, Performance Tuning
SQLBlog.com, Google Interview Questions

 

[xomp]

Thanks for all the input folks! Currently right now I just want to play around in it. I've had some experience with database design/coding but it was with MS Access and was out of pure boredom at me old employer. I was able to figure out nearly every aspect of designing/creating/maintaining an Access DB just by reading the help files.

I would really like a career in Data Analyst at some point, just now I needed to know where to start because so many sites/books fail to mention this key aspect of the whole thing (in my experience at least).

I'm not sure what 'degree' I should go for either, there are so many out there at varying degree's that one can easily get confused.

If anyone has info on where to start as far as degree goes for Data Analyst careers then please let me know

 

[JoeAtWork]

I have a copy of MS SQL Server 2005 that I got from my old employeer and was going to install it because as I understand it, I have too in order to program in SQL.

It's kind of backwards to say you need SQL Server to program in SQL. Rather, you need to know SQL in order to use SQL Server. Without the server, knowing SQL is about as useful as being fluent in Klingon.

Is it possible to get into SQL programming without having to do all the other stuff like SQL Database Server Networking Infrastructure Management OMGWTFBBQ?

Where did you get that from, cause I haven't got a clue what you are talking about here. You just install it on the server (or your desktop if you want to play with it locally). I'm by no stretch of the imagination a network admin, but I've gotten SQL Server installed and visible on the network. All it took was a Google search and about a half hour of reading. As a former Domain Admin I would think you have more experience at installing server applications than I do.

If you want to learn something new, do what I do, buy a book and start reading.

 

[JoeAtWork]

XOMP - we were posting at the same time so I did not see your mention of Access.

The basic concepts of databases in Access and SQL Server are the same - they are both relational database systems.

I think what is throwing you off is that Access is both the database and the front end. SQL Server is only a database engine - you need some other tool like Visual Studio to build the front-ends (forms, reports, etc.). Access is a file based system, SQL Server is a service (it serves other programs).

 

[TheInsider]

Well, a degree won't guarantee you a career in a specific field. It's a starting point to learn the fundamentals (which clearly a LOT of people don't have).

I'm not sure what you mean by there being so many degrees out there to choose from. Many schools to choose from perhaps, but for IT, you really only need to choose between CS (computer science) and CIS (computer information systems). The former is weighted more towards theory, and the latter is weighted more toward practical application. a BSc/BA in either will be sufficient.

I know there many here who will tell you that formal education isn't important. They're entitled to their opinion, and we could argue the point all day; however, I urge YOU to visit Monster.com, Dice.com or one of the many other IT job sites and look at the requirements for any positions that interest you. Count the number of jobs that DON'T require a degree or 5+ years of experience, and then count the ones that do. See how many out of 100 fall into each category.

 

[ESquared]

the interest I got from employers then and the interest I get from them after earning my bachelor is night and day.

I think you have some good points, but that is partly a function of the economy and partly a function of how the degree compares with your provable/proven work experience. Most job descriptions I've seen say something like "degree in xyz or equivalent experience." If the company is small and they're having trouble finding people, you'd be surprised who they're willing to hire.

To me a degree proves that you know how to focus and work, and you've been trained in the basic fundamentals of a particular field. Except for doctorates (though not always) and perhaps more technical/specialized masters degrees, they say very little about ability. When I worked at Philips Electronics, there was a new engineer who I was constantly helping—not because I knew the material but because I could pick up the thing and explain it to him faster than he could figure it out himself. All his formal training left him full of theory and very short of practical ability. Yes, he got paid more than I did, but the point is that a degree doesn't confer ability and many hiring bosses are aware of this.

In 2000 I could get a tech job in a week with 10 resumes. In 2001 when the economy took a dive, I sent out 90 resumes and got 2 phone calls telling me I didn't have a degree. They didn't really care about the degree: it was a way to cut down on the deluge of job-seekers.

My path did lead through some small companies, and if you don't have formal training that is where you will likely need to start. And you'll do it at lower pay and with more risk. But moving up can be done if you take initiative, are good at teaching yourself, and if you look for new opportunities every so often. You might even end up being one of those people who leaves a trail of junk in your wake (and even you might agree with that assessment of your work as a beginner, years later). But if you keep learning and keep progressing, you can get there.

I would rather have gotten a degree and all that stuff. But it didn't happen, and circumstances kept me from it, and it's not a priority for me now though I may some day go do it. And I got where I am without it.

And where is that? Earning pretty well. Learning a lot. Access to 70 SQL Servers and some pretty big applications (no terabyte systems yet, though, only 200+ GB and 35-million-row tables).

Yes, it's harder to get a job without formal experience and without a degree, but it can be done if you transition into the job over time.

 

[SQLDenis]

The curse and blessings of working in IT: there is always new stuff to master
blessing: you won't be bored and do the same stuff day in and day out (unlike COBOL)
curse: you can't keep up ith all the new changes, take SQL 2005 all the new stuff (DMV, T-SQL changes, SSIS (biggie) etc etc etc) Guess what SQL 2008 is around the corner....

Denis The SQL Menace
--------------------
SQL Server Code,Tips and Tricks, Performance Tuning
SQLBlog.com, Google Interview Questions

 

[kaht]

I always ask people what the favorite book/website/blog is

Denis, do they get bonus points if they say

http://www.lessthandot.com

-kaht

Lisa, if you don't like your job you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

Finally, <. is a good thing!

http://www.lessthandot.com

 

[TheInsider]

I agree with everything ESquared just wrote. His assessment of the IT field is very accurate from what I've seen and heard from others. I do still recommend xomp visit the major IT job sites to look at the job postings and their requirements.

 

[LNBruno]

leaves a trail of junk in your wake (and even you might agree with that assessment of your work as a beginner, years later)

Reminds me of something my mentor told me

The worst code you'll ever see is the stuff you wrote six months ago.

< M!ke >
[small]Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?[/small]

 

[brendasql]

Xomp, Go for it! Install that copy of SQL and have yourself a ball. I have an Assc degree in CIS and never learn the first thing about SQL in school, but my first job was as a VB6 programmer and our database was in SQL7, since then I have work in SQL2000 and now in SQL2005. I have also programmed applications and databases in Access 97 - 2000 BUT I LOVE SQL! Have fun just playing no one knows what the future will bring. Later if you go for classes or degree you may be a step ahead of the others!

 

[genomon]

Guess what SQL 2008 is around the corner

Just went to a MS Launch Event ("Heroes Happen") several weeks ago & got a full version & VS2008 for free. It's already here!

For details:

http://www.HeroesHappenHere.com

"Teamwork means never having to take all the blame yourself."

 

[Ach005ki]

Xomp, I was brought into my company purely to help tighten stock control and through my previous limited experience of SQL & Crystal Reports from several years ago (and a reasonably good grasp of Excel) I found I was striving to strengthen and broaden Excel reports which were serviced by data from SQL Server 2000 via MS Query. This re-awakened my interest in SQL and this attracted attention from my immediate superiors and directors alike.

The result so far is that my salary and position have advanced somewhat - I feel what has been recognised is my enthusiasm, application and aptitude; despite currently not having access to any other query tool, I have still been able to improve the integrity and scope of inventory-related reports, whilst developing my knowledge of SQL (with very kind and patient assistance from Esquared, SQLSister, Boris, Rudy, Alex, Denis et al).

I also developed a small Access database (linked to the SQL Server data) for greater flexibility in reporting on Inventory Stock-take variances, and I found that I enjoyed writing the SQL for the queries far more than I did using the drag-n-drop GUI to build queries. I even enjoyed switching between Access and SQL 2000 to see where the language needed tweaking between the two when writing queries.

Now that my wife is a qualified midwife (and gainfully employed too - woot!), I will be focussing my attention on securing a place on a part-time IT degree course at a local college in the hope that I can build on my knowledge and certify it!

Good luck with your learning adventure!

Mark, somewhere near Blackburn Lancs!

 

[Gooser]

Join the Air Force as a 3C0X2 and hope that you get a job in a database shop. Get tons of free training and 6 years of OJT, weak pay, and a worthless AAS from the CCAF. That's what I did!



v/r

Gooser

Why do today
that which may not need to be done tomorrow --me

The Universal Model

 

[xomp]

Holy crap! Thanks to everyone who has replied. I was away on vacation so I couldn't check the forums hehe. I guess Google has lead me astray on a lot of my searches concerning SQL and the like. I believe it's what caused my initial confusion.

I will indeed install SQL Server 05 on an old PC and play around a bit to see what it's like.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[xomp]

MS Access 2003 & MS SQL Server 2005 cannot get along so it seems. Anyone know a way I can get them working with each other?

 

[JoeAtWork]

How do you define "cannot get along"?

They "get along" just fine for me.

 

[xomp]

It's in referrence to tables. Seems Access 2003 can't write to/create new tables in SQL Server 2005 or so that's been the errors I get with it.

Now I'm getting JIT debugging problems about 'new instance of ms visual studio 2005' so who knows lol.

 

[JoeAtWork]

The standard way of combining Access and SQL Server is to use Access as the front end with linked tables to an SQL Server database.

Having write problems may be due to not having primary keys in tables, or maybe the connection you are using does not have the necessary permissions (i.e. what SQL Login you are using).

I never create tables on the Access side, so I don't know what problems you might be having there.

I can't imagine what your JIT or VS2005 problems would be - it certainly shouldn't be errors that occur on the Access side.