How to make sense of it all? 1

[xomp]

I'm interested in programming in SQL but find a few key area's to be unexplained. First off I would like to design/code databases but don't know where to start to do this!

Would I need MS SQL Server 2005 to do this or just notepad or something?

Thanks

 

[r937]

to design databases, all you need is paper and pencil

to code databases, notepad is sufficient, but a front end tool is recommended

of course, you'll want to install the database system itself, yeah

r937.com | rudy.ca

 

[xomp]

What front end tool would you recommend?

Is it possible to get into SQL programming without having to do all the other stuff like SQL Database Server Networking Infrastructure Management OMGWTFBBQ?

I just simply want to create databases, not write the entire OS/Network/Etc.. if that makes sense

 

[genomon]

MS Access is a good frontend and a RDBMS as well. Google it...

"Teamwork means never having to take all the blame yourself."

 

[xomp]

Thanks,

I have a lot of experience with MS Access actually. I've designed several medium to large databases for a company I worked for out of pure boredom. It was a simple program to learn but don't recall ever using SQL in any of it. It's been awhile so I dunno

From my understanding Access is JET-SQL, is that the same as vanilla SQL?

Thanks again!

 

[tperri]

I suggest you real more about what SQL is.

Starting here would be good:

http://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_intro.asp

 

[xomp]

I understand the concepts of SQL, I've been reading a lot to do with SQL here recently but everything fails to tell you how to get started. I have Access, I have enough SQL knowledge by reading to do some testing, but nothing mentions what to test "in".

I've installed MS SQL Server 2005 and all but that's like Rocket Surgery and have no idea if it even pertains to my learning to "CREATE" databases "USING" SQL

 

[tperri]

If you are using SQL Server 2005, use the Management Studio to create tables, stored procedures, queries.... all the work would be done there. But don't expect to find a GUI like Access there. It doesnt exist.

 

[ESquared]

I hate Management Studio. It's slow. It takes 40% more clicks to do anything. Its ctrl-tab window selection Bites Big Retardedness and windows change their numbers when you switch between them so you can't reliably switch to a window by its number using a keyboard shortcut. And on and on.

In Query Analyzer I can right-click and drag something to the query window at an insertion point and select "Create". Do get the same function I have to do many clicks, script to the clipboard—wiping it out in the process—and then paste. I use Query Analyzer for SQL 2005 databases and the sp_help and other sps to do what it can't.

And, how to make sense of it all? You can't. Best to just shoot yourself now.

 

[SQLDenis]

>>I use Query Analyzer for SQL 2005 databases and the sp_help and other sps to do what it can't.

same here I hardly use SSMS but the intelisense in 2008 is nice if you don't know your data model

Denis The SQL Menace
--------------------
SQL Server Code,Tips and Tricks, Performance Tuning
SQLBlog.com, Google Interview Questions

 

[tperri]

Well I use what I have installed at work

 

[TheInsider]

One of the questions I have is WHY do you want to use SQL Server? Do you anticipate a need at your company, or is it just out of curiosity? The reason I ask is because your company would be wise to hire someone experienced to develop large-scale databases. Every learn-as-you-go database I've ever encountered... I've had to scrap and redesign from scratch.

If your objective is to further your career, then I would recommend getting a degree in CS or CIS first. There, they will teach you the underlying fundamentals that are crucial for good design. You'll find companies are going to be extremely reluctant to let you get your hands on their database -- and thus their data -- until you can prove you're competent. I'm not saying that you can't get a job without a degree, but without one, you'd better have a lot of experience under your belt to compensate.

 

[xomp]

I don't have a company or work for one currently (I was recently laid off as an Domain Admin). I have a copy of MS SQL Server 2005 that I got from my old employeer and was going to install it because as I understand it, I have too in order to program in SQL.

This is why I'm lost about SQL really. I just don't know what is involved to get started. All I want to do is the programming/design of databases, not the network/OS configuration aspects of it all. Is such a field even existent in the world?

 

[r937]

is design of databases a field? you betcha!

the position often carries the title Data Analyst

installing the free version of SQL Server 2005 is a good idea, and it's not all that difficult (heck, i did it, and i rate software installs right up there along with root canals as my idea of an afternoon well spent)

it wouldn't hurt to install mysql either, just so that you also get a feel for that version of SQL (the language)

r937.com | rudy.ca

 

[xomp]

Haha Yaaah!! Thanks for the details That was exactly what I needed to know! Thank you very much r937

 

[xomp]

Actually, I think the name is Data Architect I found out some interesting info here

http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...t&cty=&sid=&kw=Data+Analyst&jn=&edu=&tid=1872

 

[TheInsider]

Hmmmm... I'm not trying to discourage you, but I can't see how you're going to get a job as a data architect, data analyst or database administrator just by playing around with SQL Server in your basement. In reality, it would be like me saying I want to be a gourmet chef because I've got an oven at home, and I've made mac and cheese a few times. Now I'll just borrow a cookbook from the library and hopefully some restaurant will give me a chance.

Yes, you can read books and follow tutorials, but that can never compare to working on real-world projects (even if you're not in the lead). Without a degree or 5+ years of experience, your chances of getting an interview are slim. If you're truly serious about this career move, then I urge you to get a degree. (I'm assuming you don't have a degree because, otherwise, you'd already have taken courses in RDBMSs).

 

[ESquared]

TheInsider,

If only the taste analogy was more apt! But proof that people who aren't experienced do get hired in these positions is ample throughout the tek-tips forums. So don't shoot down all hope.

I never had formal training and by hook and by crook managed to work my way into some pretty serious knowledge and responsibility.

If only code smell was as obvious to people as food taste.

 

[TheInsider]

I stand by the analogy and think it's quite appropriate. Having sought work with only an associates, I can tell you that the difference between the interest I got from employers then and the interest I get from them after earning my bachelor is night and day.

No disrespect to those who don't have degrees; I'm sure there are countless numbers who can program circles around me. Nevertheless, reality doesn't change. If he starts playing with SQL Server today, he's not going to be working as a data architect by this time next year... unless he happens to stumble upon the most incompetent employer out there.

"But proof that people who aren't experienced do get hired in these positions is ample throughout the tek-tips forums."

I disagree with your premise. I think the majority of what you see on here is professionals who are working slightly outside of their area of expertise, which is extremely common in IT.

For example, a native ASP programmer might be asked to take over the maintenance of a web site written in PHP. It's not unreasonable for that programmer to then come to this site to ask how some particular task is accomplished in PHP. However, that doesn't mean they don't have the fundamentals of web design under their belt already.

I highly doubt that high degree of A+ computer store clerks are getting hired to develop e-commerce solutions. With outsourcing and large numbers of college graduates out there to choose from, planning to be a self-taught techie is no longer an option.

 

[AlexCuse]

With outsourcing and large numbers of college graduates out there to choose from, planning to be a self-taught techie is no longer an option.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't have a degree in computer science, and I got a data analyst type job a few years back after having to write a little SQL in a QA role, and taking an online course. Its' worked out pretty well for me and my employer (IMHO of course). Xomp, if this is REALLY what you want to do (not just for salary reasons) then I encourage you to go for it. There are lots of entry level positions out there, and if you work hard enough at it you will find an opportunity.

I think the majority of what you see on here is professionals who are working slightly outside of their area of expertise, which is extremely common in IT.

For example, a native ASP programmer might be asked to take over the maintenance of a web site written in PHP. It's not unreasonable for that programmer to then come to this site to ask how some particular task is accomplished in PHP.

Most of the questions I've read lately don't suggest that at all. Many suggest a complete lack of problem solving skills and an utter dependence on someone else's advice for even the simplest tasks. They may be professionals in the sense that they get paid for doing IT work, but the similarity ends there.

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