How many times we abbreviate and then expand a little of that ?

[ramani]

We often use superfluous language..

IT Technology - (Information Technology technology)
FD drive - (Floppy drive drive)
PDF format file - (Portable document format format file)
GIF file
DOS system
LIBOR rate - (London interbank offer rate rate)

and such words with tail expansions. May be others could add many more.



____________________________________________
ramani - (Subramanian.G)

http://winnersoft.coolfreepages.com/

 

[ESquared]

Dave,

You should confuse them all by saying "how about that there F Spending Account?" When they seem confused, say "you know, that FS Account." When they still look blank, try "Flexible SA? Flexible S Account? Is any of this ringing any bells? F Spending A? Hello? McFly? Maybe I should say Flexible FSA Account."


-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[LFI]

ESquared,

You literally had me LOL out loud!

--Dave

P.S. Script, yes, the extension of the abbreviation was intentional!

 

[ESquared]

Hi, I'm from the Department of Redundancy Department. It has come to our attention that your DRDA application has some errors which have come to our attention. Please be advised that you will have to resubmit your DRDA application will have to be resubmitted. Your help in correcting this matter would be extremely helpful in correcting this matter.

Rudolph R. Rudolph
Supervisor, DRD Department Supervisor

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[LFI]

I can't believe we missed this one, but I think of it every time I get an invitation to something (as I did yesterday):

"RSVP Please!"

--Dave

 

[RodKnowlton]

Since SCSI is an acronym for the proper name of a protocol, I'd say that "SCSI interface", while awkward when expanded, is not redundant.

To give a contrived example of a similar construct: if there were multiple forums on Tek-Tips devoted to the discussion of forums on Tek-Tips, they could be correctly referred to as "Tek-Tips forums forums".

 

[ESquared]

P.S. This is not a postscript. It is a prescript.

SCSI is not a protocol. It is an interface which consists of hardware and software specifications (cables with such-and-such pinout and connectors, electronic signals of so-and-so pattern, etc.). There is a protocol used by the interface, but it is much more than a protocol. I think it's just as valid an example of RAS Syndrome as ASP Page, FBI Bureau, or PIN Number.

P.P.S. This is a pre-postscript.

P.P.P.S. This is a post-pre-postscript!

P.S. This is the actual postscript.

P.P.S. This is a post-postscript.

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[mscallisto]

Well there are SCSI Drives, Cables, CDs, Scanners etc. so I agree with RodKnowlton that although "SCSI Interface" is repetition it's not needless repetition.

 

[ESquared]

Sure it's needless!

You just said, "SCSI CDs." You didn't say "SCSI Interface CDs." So it's clear that SCSI can stand on its own and people know that it's an interface without using the word. Thus, SCSI interface is redundant!

SCSI is its own thing, a noun... it does not need to be converted to an adjective modifying the world interface.

It's an ATM. Noun. Not a machine, of type "ATM." Thus we have no need to say "ATM Machine."

"ATM Device," "FBI Agency," and "PIN Code" would all be just as redundant. That's not to say that one couldn't appropriately refer to "the device known as an ATM," "the agency known as the FBI," "your code known as a PIN," and "the interface known as SCSI." But in most instances I argue that the additional word is redundant. After such explication as these examples, mere ATM, FBI, PIN, and SCSI suffice.

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[RodKnowlton]

SCSI is an acronym that acts as a proper noun. It is the name of a standard that includes all of the various things we've mentioned (transport protocols, cables, interfaces.)

It also acts as an adjective to describe anything that is compliant with that standard, just as SAE tools comply with the standards of the Society of Automotive Engineers.

Finally, which of the following questions makes less sense than the others?

Is there an ATM nearby?
Have you ever called the FBI?
Do you remember your PIN?
Does your computer have a SCSI?

Side note: Once upon a time, I was the only person I knew that was interested in computers. Consequently, I did quite a bit of reading about them, but no talking. After becoming a computer professional, it took me a little while to lose my "ess-see-ess-eye" pronounciation.

 

[ESquared]

Good way to demonstrate your point.

What would it mean to you that I prefer the following construction:

Do your computer have SCSI?

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[jwenting]

Another point: people turning acronyms into verbs.

Have you been RTFM'd lately?

"Do your computer have SCSI? " incorrect language use.
Should be "Do your computers have a SCSI?" which would likely get glassy stares

 

[Thadeus]

The error was not in adding the 'a' back in... I believe E² wanted to state:
Does your computer have SCSI?

I would ask E²: Shouldn't you be able to replace the acronym with the repetitive word keeping the declarative?

Does your computer have a interface?

in the same way that you can change
Do you have a PIN?
Do you have a number?

Tom used the ATM.
Tom used the machine.

I joined the CIA.
I joined the agency.

While I fundamentally agree with you Eric, these are questions I am asking myself...

~Thadeus

 

[RodKnowlton]

Does your computer have SCSI?" is fine, but it references the entire capability, not just the interface.

You could also point at the SCSI interface and ask, "Is that a SCSI?". The pointing would serve to disambiguate "SCSI".

Rod Knowlton
IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert pSeries and AIX 5L
CompTIA Linux+
CompTIA Security+

 

[ESquared]

Yes, I did mean to say "Does your computer have SCSI?"

It just occurred to me that there may be improper noun acronyms and proper noun acronyms. In English, proper nouns (in general) are allergic to articles, unless the proper noun has an article as part of the name.

The following constructions are very odd in English:

The Erik fed the cat.
The Sir, would you care for a glass of water?
Are you going to the America for vacation?

In contrast, Portuguese does use articles for proper nouns, and the above uses of {article + proper noun} would be correct. Or at least, I know there are times when they would be correct, if not exactly as in the above sentences.

I mention all this because I'm wondering if SCSI is functioning as a proper noun and the others are functioning as improper nouns? Don't shoot me, I'm just brainstorming here.

"Does your computer have SCSI?" Yes would indicate that it has a hardware port as well as the required electronics to use that port.

Pointing at the port itself and saying "Is that SCSI?" with no article sounds better to me.

I think I'm partly objecting to your use of the generic word interface to refer only to the external physical port or cable connector. The entire thing—internal electronics, ports, cables, protocols, software, and all—is the interface.

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[flapeyre]

Ever since a certain performer has changed his name back to Prince from an unpronounceable symbol, I have taken to calling him "the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince".

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum.

 

[RodKnowlton]

I agree that "Is that SCSI" sounds better without the article.

I actually thought I had proposed that SCSI is acting as a proper noun, but the closest I got was my first post, in which I said it was an acronym for a proper name. I think I must have switched semantic horses in the middle of that stream.

So SCSI is acting as a proper noun.

Adjectives are often derived from proper nouns (eg. American from America.)

Here's the twist: adjectives are derived from acronyms acting as proper nouns by doing nothing. The acronym is both the proper noun and the adjective.

In the case of SCSI, it's almost exclusively used as an adjective.

SCSI Standard
SCSI Parallel Interface
SCSI Commands

Now that my curiousity has sent me off to the read the SCSI Parallel Interface standard, I will no longer call a "cable bus segment path connector" an interface. I'm not promising that I'll remember the real name, though.


Rod Knowlton
IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert pSeries and AIX 5L
CompTIA Linux+
CompTIA Security+

 

[ESquared]

Now that I think about it, "Is that a SCSI," referring to merely a connector, would have to be answered no because the connector is not the interface. It is only one component of the interface.

One cannot point to any thing and call it a SCSI any more than one can say, there is a love. What does that say about what part of speech SCSI functions as, or what its characteristics are?

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[RodKnowlton]

What sort of hard drive would you like?"

"Give me a SCSI."


"What kind of screwdriver do you need?"

"Give me a Phillips."


<non-global pop reference>
<sing>
I unpacked my adjectives
</sing>
</non-global pop reference>

 

[mscallisto]

I'm going to start taking bets on who gets the last word!

I prefer scuzzi and star tool

 

[ESquared]

The articles don't belong to the last word in the sentence, SCSI, Phillips. They belong to the implied noun.

"Give me a SCSI [hard drive]."
=
Give me a hard drive of type SCSI.

"Give me a Phillips [screwdriver]."
=
Give me a screwdriver of type Phillips.



-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)