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How do you a project moving?
- Thread starter mdh1
- Start date
johnherman
MIS
Start coding immediately. You can always retrofit the requirements later. 
Seriously, there is nothing you can do without requirements. Without requirements, anything you work on could be useless once requirements are known.
Who is the project sponsor? Make sure the project sponsor/stakeholder committee is aware that the project is on hold awaiting requirements.
-------------------------
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright
Seriously, there is nothing you can do without requirements. Without requirements, anything you work on could be useless once requirements are known.
Who is the project sponsor? Make sure the project sponsor/stakeholder committee is aware that the project is on hold awaiting requirements.
-------------------------
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright
benlinkknilneb
Programmer
Discuss it with your supervisor. Then send an email (cc both your boss and theirs) and state that until a couple of meetings to determine the specs are held, this project will be on hold. Then drop it. Work on another project. This one will either go away or they'll hold meetings to get what you need. But DON'T do this without your supervisor's knowledge.
Ben
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
Ben
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
All good suggestions so far. Often, however, the customer is personally ill-equipped to answer the question "what do you want me to build"?
I suggest ALSO putting together a framework of questions that help the customer figure out the areas of thinking that are not sufficiently nailed down for you to begin work. Try to use "dummy"-proof language to get the conversation started, you can geek-out once they get rolling.
Such as....
This application's purpose(s) is/are: [make them list]
This application's users is/are: [more list]
This application talks to these other applications: [produce list]
This application should be available to: internet web users, local building users, executives only, handheld users, telephone users, .....
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
I suggest ALSO putting together a framework of questions that help the customer figure out the areas of thinking that are not sufficiently nailed down for you to begin work. Try to use "dummy"-proof language to get the conversation started, you can geek-out once they get rolling.
Such as....
This application's purpose(s) is/are: [make them list]
This application's users is/are: [more list]
This application talks to these other applications: [produce list]
This application should be available to: internet web users, local building users, executives only, handheld users, telephone users, .....
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
johnherman
MIS
After reading the other responses, I think I need to revise my response. All ideas listed so far are good, but what is right for you depends alot on your company's political and project management environment.
Who do you report to? How much authority do you have as PM? What is the PM methodology in use? How well does the business work with IT at your company? How rigid are standards with respect to functional specifications? What about budget, can you overrun if requirements are not well known as you converge on a solution using, say, a spiral development model? How visible is thie project? Urgency? Importance? Etc.
I especially like Ben's statement regarding the urgency of the project. Either they'll hold meetings (give you what you need) or the project will simply fade away.
-------------------------
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright
Who do you report to? How much authority do you have as PM? What is the PM methodology in use? How well does the business work with IT at your company? How rigid are standards with respect to functional specifications? What about budget, can you overrun if requirements are not well known as you converge on a solution using, say, a spiral development model? How visible is thie project? Urgency? Importance? Etc.
I especially like Ben's statement regarding the urgency of the project. Either they'll hold meetings (give you what you need) or the project will simply fade away.
-------------------------
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright
If you are the PM and the develper you need to set the meeting yourself. If your company uses Outlook or some other meeting planner, find a time when everone is available and "invite" them to the meeting.
If they don't show or refuse the meeting, at least you did proper CYA planning.
Project9
If they don't show or refuse the meeting, at least you did proper CYA planning.
Project9
I have worked on a similar project and in a similar hostile environment.
Arrange a meeting (via Outlook) with the client reps. (if the client contact is hostile, include his/her boss in the meeting invitation and force them to respond.
Secondly have a questionaaire prepared off-hand to be circulated/discussed in the meeting. You may need to plan the questionaire quite well in advance loading it with questions you want answered.
Also try to design the questionaire in an objective format i.e. close-ended questions with one-liner answers
E.g.
1.How many sub-systems does the application have?
2. Names of systems?
3. No .of systems interacted with?
4. No of external interfaces?
5. Batch or client-server
6. How many batch? How many C/S?
7.Directory names etc..
Something like 50-60 questions (1 per min) should suffice in the initial meeting to get you started,
Rgds,
A0C61ZZ
Arrange a meeting (via Outlook) with the client reps. (if the client contact is hostile, include his/her boss in the meeting invitation and force them to respond.
Secondly have a questionaaire prepared off-hand to be circulated/discussed in the meeting. You may need to plan the questionaire quite well in advance loading it with questions you want answered.
Also try to design the questionaire in an objective format i.e. close-ended questions with one-liner answers
E.g.
1.How many sub-systems does the application have?
2. Names of systems?
3. No .of systems interacted with?
4. No of external interfaces?
5. Batch or client-server
6. How many batch? How many C/S?
7.Directory names etc..
Something like 50-60 questions (1 per min) should suffice in the initial meeting to get you started,
Rgds,
A0C61ZZ
It's extremely rare for you not to know anything of the requirements. I built an entire system for Shell without ever talking to anyone. I just looked at promotional material, attended public presentations etc and from that I built a prototype. BMW don't ask you for your requirements when they design the next 5 series. They know what a good car is and likewise you as a professional should know what a good system is.
Life is the opposite to what John has said. Generally without requirements, most of what you work on will be useful once requirements are known. Whereas the work you don't do because you are waiting is always totally useless. I see projects all around me slipping badly because people are waiting for requirements. I could have built their systems and moved on by now.
RAD works, it's just most people think the Earth is flat.
BNPMike, I have some objections to your statements - in good spirit, of course.
"RAD works" - yes, but that presumes customer participation throughout the project for testing and specifications.
"BMW doesn't ask you requirements" - yes, but they are bulding and selling something based upon THEIR OWN design and requirements which they spend millions of $$ on market research, engineering, documenting and testing. If you don't buy their product, they loose.
"I built an entire system for Shell without ever talking to anyone" - [begin sarcasm] well, ok, I just went and built an entire system for GE using Excel and tin cans. [end sarcasm] Did they use it? Did they have to constantly tweak it or revise it? Was is supportable? Was is fit for purpose? Did it scale? Was it secure? Was it documented? Was it in budget, on time? Did it meet corporate branding needs? See what I mean here? No need to answer these hypotheticals.....
BNPMike, I'm sure you're talented and successful. I guess my thinking behind this post is to encourage us all to be a bit careful in how we characterize professional project management. Talented professionals _can_ cut corners when they know what they're doing. Some of the questions posted in this forum are very basic questions from people who need to be shown the full spectrum of formal project management.
The project management profession is growing and being legitimized, I encourage professionalism at at every turn.
[ end soapbox]
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
"RAD works" - yes, but that presumes customer participation throughout the project for testing and specifications.
"BMW doesn't ask you requirements" - yes, but they are bulding and selling something based upon THEIR OWN design and requirements which they spend millions of $$ on market research, engineering, documenting and testing. If you don't buy their product, they loose.
"I built an entire system for Shell without ever talking to anyone" - [begin sarcasm] well, ok, I just went and built an entire system for GE using Excel and tin cans. [end sarcasm] Did they use it? Did they have to constantly tweak it or revise it? Was is supportable? Was is fit for purpose? Did it scale? Was it secure? Was it documented? Was it in budget, on time? Did it meet corporate branding needs? See what I mean here? No need to answer these hypotheticals.....
BNPMike, I'm sure you're talented and successful. I guess my thinking behind this post is to encourage us all to be a bit careful in how we characterize professional project management. Talented professionals _can_ cut corners when they know what they're doing. Some of the questions posted in this forum are very basic questions from people who need to be shown the full spectrum of formal project management.
The project management profession is growing and being legitimized, I encourage professionalism at at every turn.
[ end soapbox]
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
That's perhaps more JAD.
Professional Project Management seems to translate to structured waterfall type bureacratic activities - project plans, specs etc. These are not professional any more than art needs numbers on the canvas.
Ultimately you need user involvement but it's unnecessary, and unfair to expect users to define their requirements. BMW define theirs - agreed. You define yours, as much as you can. Only bother users with essential things and make sure you give them something easy to understand.
Eg a prototype.
Hmmm, circular argument on stylistic preferences looming.... I think we need to agree that we disagree.
I probably do come from a more bureacratic mindset - as advocated by PMI - if you want to call it that. Sounds like your context is from RAD/xAD software development where the user maybe doesn't even know what they want and they NEED to rely on the judgement of the highly experienced development team to present them with something to begin chipping away at. Of course, an inexperienced or unfamiliar development team cannot contribute in this manner.
I just view leaving the requirements unstated until afterwards as a particularly dangerous affair. It is also particularly difficult and dangerous when working with "offshored" development teams. Those teams (eg. India) REALLY REALLY REALLY do not like working without firmly structured requirements.
But, of course, project management does have an element of stylistic privilege that goes with each of the market verticals and local territories in which we work.
I guess I'm no fun anymore....
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
I probably do come from a more bureacratic mindset - as advocated by PMI - if you want to call it that. Sounds like your context is from RAD/xAD software development where the user maybe doesn't even know what they want and they NEED to rely on the judgement of the highly experienced development team to present them with something to begin chipping away at. Of course, an inexperienced or unfamiliar development team cannot contribute in this manner.
I just view leaving the requirements unstated until afterwards as a particularly dangerous affair. It is also particularly difficult and dangerous when working with "offshored" development teams. Those teams (eg. India) REALLY REALLY REALLY do not like working without firmly structured requirements.
But, of course, project management does have an element of stylistic privilege that goes with each of the market verticals and local territories in which we work.
I guess I'm no fun anymore....
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
I worked with one of the top handful of Indian suppliers and they did very well in a structured environment. Subsequently they were used for more unstructurable work ( I think it was Business-as-Usual/Support) and failed completely. However I had a few over here and they quickly learned how to get on with things without having everything spelled out up front.
I'm not advocating throwing away all the structure of project management but I am passionate that people realise that much of eg Prince 2 (probably PMI also) is not only unnecessary but actually encourages conflict and failure because it totally misunderstands how people work.
As always my advice is start with The Mythical Man Month. This is concerned with the IBM 360 and OS/360 but it introduces the idea that you will not define the problem up front however hard you try. Everything else follows on from that.
I am in a similar situation: First time PM and Developer.
What I did was list a mass of questions to gather information for analysis. Such as: Business Logic, Marketing Strategy... and you know what: THEY DIDN'T HAVE A MARKETING STRATEGY!![[sadeyes]](/data/assets/smilies/sadeyes.gif "[sadeyes] [sadeyes]")
To make matters worse, the Sponsor wants a stress-free life. I want to provide him with regular Project Updates, but he won't read them. I would like to see him involved in Scope Reviews, but chances are he will be out of the office - and he doesn't even carry a mobile phone!
Shoot. I'll just deliver him an appetiser and if he wants more, he will have to hire me again.
Do the experienced PMs think I am going about this the wrong way? I'm quite nervous and second guessing myself a lot!
----------
Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam
What I did was list a mass of questions to gather information for analysis. Such as: Business Logic, Marketing Strategy... and you know what: THEY DIDN'T HAVE A MARKETING STRATEGY!
To make matters worse, the Sponsor wants a stress-free life. I want to provide him with regular Project Updates, but he won't read them. I would like to see him involved in Scope Reviews, but chances are he will be out of the office - and he doesn't even carry a mobile phone!
Shoot. I'll just deliver him an appetiser and if he wants more, he will have to hire me again.
Do the experienced PMs think I am going about this the wrong way? I'm quite nervous and second guessing myself a lot!
----------
Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam
First, start a new thread.
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
D.E.R. Management - IT Project Management Consulting
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