How do I approach adult sites? 3

[mike071581]

Hello,

I typed out my ethcial question but decided it was to long. So here's the short version:

How do I deal with an employee that's looking at adult sites when that employee is the owner of my company?

If you want the full story please let me know.

Thanks,

"Mike

 

[cmeagan656]

Is their a site that has generic use policies that I could look at?

Have a look here for some generic polices.

http://www.sans.org/resources/policies/?portal=edb00049be4c737bbf0b96ae2b44c13f#template

Cheers.

 

[Grenage]

If the boss was forwarding sexually explicit material to other employees, or printing it off and leaving on his desk, them perhaps you could use the sexual harassment angle.

Otherwise, it would be a a bit like a plumber fixing your boiler and catching sight of a pornographic magazine you had hidden away somewhere. Hardly sexual harassment.


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[LadySlinger]

Just out of curiousity, speaking of the sexual harrassment stuff, if the boss posted cut outs of pornographic material on their bulletin board, next to pictures of their wife and kids, as well as had promiscuous back ground on their desktop?
Then when told that its not appropriate, the person of importance just makes sure there is some form of clothes on the woman?

Just curious...

 

[Stevehewitt]

In an ideal world it would be that the company (remember a company is it's own legal entity) employed you to look after it's corporate network.
If that was how the management saw it then you'd be fine telling them that it's a danger etc.

However realistically it's just not like that. Depends what size of company you are in, but if you think you can get a budget that will allow you to purchase a good proxy server. (SurfControl, WebSense, FortiGate etc.) then let the system automatically block naughty stuff.
I doubt he'll come to you asking to get his porn unblocked.




Steve.

"They have the internet on computers now!" - Homer Simpson

 

[ttmac]

"He comes in on Sundays to do this type of stuff so no one's around when he's doing it."

Is this type of surfing limited to the weekend?

Is there a requirement for internet access at the weekend?

Could you block all access over the weekend only keeping necessary ports open?

You could argue that you are limiting sources of attack or something along those lines if questioned.

Tom.

 

[KornGeek]

If the boss was forwarding sexually explicit material to other employees, or printing it off and leaving on his desk, them perhaps you could use the sexual harassment angle.

Otherwise, it would be a a bit like a plumber fixing your boiler and catching sight of a pornographic magazine you had hidden away somewhere. Hardly sexual harassment.

Actually, in this day and age, simply having the pictures on his computer (via his temp files) and having an employee stumble across them during the clean up of the computer could be grounds for a harassment suit. Whether this is right or not is another discussion, but simply having those images at work could be viewed as part of creating a hostile environment.

 

[Grenage]

I guess that is one of the problems, nothing like this is ever black and white. Curse the law


Carlsberg don't run I.T departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

I doubt he'll come to you asking to get his porn unblocked."

I'm tending to lean towards this way of thinking. But there are a few hiccups. If you are deeply offended by pornographic material you should assess your job position. IE I would not take a position as a HR person that has the responsibility for investigating employees that have been charged with sexual harassment.

As far as it causing you work....well the way I look at it is you are paid to be there working. If you are working extra hours fixing this stuff you should be compensated. If you get it done during work hours then you’re already getting compensated.

That said you have a few options.
First approach the boss and say that the logs are showing a increased amount of traffic to adult sites. Ask him if he wants you to investigate what employees are causing the traffic and give him an estimate of how many man hours it might take you. At the same time suggest that you put in some filters to block sites and mention if one employee files a sexual harassment suit against another it can effect the company too if the company facilitated said harassment. I doubt the boss will argue with you. Just make sure you've got a good poker face.

The second approach would be to put in the filters then if the boss came to you asking what is going on use a similar story. That you've seen a marked increase in traffic to adult sites. That these sites often link to each other and opening one page by mistake can cause a lot of traffic. You put the filters in proactively trying to prevent a accidental sexual harassment complaint and that you where loosely monitoring the situation to see if it was still a problem before strict monitoring and identification of the employee(s) responsible and raising the situation with you. Then ask, a little surprised, if you've mistakenly blocked a site that the boss is trying to get to. Again I'd be surprised if your boss said anything.

The third option I can think of is if you want to handle the situation on the up and up. Approach your boss and say that because of your duties your boss is currently deliberately exposing you to material you find offensive. Ask him to either stop accessing these sites from work or set it up so you don’t have to deal with any consequences of his activity. Before you do this make sure you have evidence to back up your claim and file the request in writing. When you type up the request make a copy and sign it. Then spend a few dollars to mail yourself the letter via registered mail. If the boss tries to deny you made a complaint before you where “fired for other reasons” you have proof. Make sure you keep the registered letter sealed until you can get it to your lawyer. Make a copy so your lawyer can read it without opening the registered letter.

In the end if your boss is hostile then you probably don’t want to work there anyway.


Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[KornGeek]

SemperFiDownUnda,

Good advice, all of it. Especially the part about seriously considering the line of work if the things involved might offend you, and being paid to do the work.

However, you didn't touch on the other reason for wanting to block it, which is to prevent damage to company resources via spyware, etc.

Also, the extra work might prevent you from doing other work, which might reflect poorly upon you at review time.

Still, enjoy a star. Very insightful post.

 

[attrofy]

Otherwise, it would be a a bit like a plumber fixing your boiler and catching sight of a pornographic magazine you had hidden away somewhere. Hardly sexual harassment.

I think this quite concisely summarizes the harrasment issue. In most cases it is about intent. Proving that someone intended to insult, harrass, etc. In large companies where those policies are very clearly laid out, this is often a no brainer, and all things err on the side of over-caution. BECAUSE the company is afraid of a giant lawsuit. In small businesses, these issues are often not addressed until it becomes an issue, then depending on the parties involved, can be blown off in a single conversation. Then at that point it is escalated to a legal battle. From that point on, things take on an entirely different role between employer and employee.

SO back to what to do?

My advice, don't beat around the bush. I have worked for several smaller companies and been very closely involved with the personal dealings of the owners - not by choice, but by necessity of job function.

Two ways to approach this. As some others have mentioned, since it is predominately on the weekend, mention that you have serious concerns about the safety of the network and the proliferation of viruses. Since it is your job to fix them, explain that there could be cases where you are unable to fix the problem without serious downtime, and if this spreads to the right computer or server, could suddenly become a company wide issue. Is the financial risk of downtime, loss of productivity and possible expense to replace components worth these risks?

Second possibility is to mention the possibility of what happens if others in the company think it is ok to surf porn sites. This could lead to a full time job for you to clean infected computers, explain why it is not ok for people to surf porn or other personal sites etc. Pull yourself out of the equation. Put the job squarely on his shoulders. What do you do if others are doing the same thing? Is this the sort of example he wants to be setting for his employees? Moreover, many viruses can be spread unvoulntarily - mass emails -etc. What kind of embarassment would that pose to the company to spam their mailing lists with porn emails, on a daily basis? Or worse yet, some use false headers that they scavenge from legitimate email sources - not good to invite that sort of potential embarasement on purpose.

My advice DO NOT just arbitrarily block any sites. This is inviting a confrontation. Weekend or otherwise. Bottom line is it is his company, he owns all the equipment, if he wants to infect it with viruses and pay you to clean them - that is his perogative. Don't put yourself in the position of second guessing him - just be sure to explain clearly what kind of risk his actions are posing - to himself, his company, to you, the equipment, the company's reputation, etc.

My guess if he is the sort to openly browse porn on weekends, he is a "no hassle" kinda guy, and you should be able to "straight shoot" him about his actions. If it helps, approach it from a point of doing some research on viruses, and the proliferation of them from porn sites, etc. This will at least break the ice, and probably open a channel of communication that will be more beneficial to you, him and the company.

 

[Kjonnnn]

If he is the true owner. And he's really breaking his own rules? And know one is being offended but you? or even knows?

It's not illegal to look at porn at work.

I dont' get the urgency.

 

[shannanl]

Personally I would try to block the sites using the excuse that you are trying to secure the network and prevent adware/spyware/malware/virus infections. Of course, he is the owner and if he wants to look at porn and he is not pushing it off on anyone else or doing it in front of anyone, then I don't see that you can do anything else except whine and get yourself fired. If he is looking at the stuff and infecting the computer and you have to chean it up and are exposed to the porn during the process, then I would say that you have legal grounds to make him stop. I am also a computer technician and I know that you can clean the spyware, adware, malware, and viruses off of a computer without viewing the porn sites they surf. I also know that you can clean out the internet history, temp files and cookies without being exposed to such so I would be very careful if I were you. It sounds to me like you are trying to impress your values on him. Maybe porn is not right for you but as long as you don't have to look at it and it is not of the illegal type, I would just set up a policy and block what you can.

 

[svanels]

He is the owner, he comes in the weekend to work and after that looks at a little porn?

We can argue about the "dangers to the network, good name of the company bla. bla." but I call that false morality.

If you want to dictate your boss what to do, better start your own company.

1) Does he send the dirty pictures to everyone in the company?
2) Does he put them on the corporate bulletin board?
3) Do you of any other person in the company receive dirty jokes from him?

4) Did you broadcast that boss is looking at naked women in the weekend? (It was broadcasted at Tek-Tips)


What I would do:

1) Elaborate a policy (together with the boss)
2) Get his approval implementing for every other employee
3) Most important one, protect your boss computer (with his knowing), by installing all necesssary protection. If he want to look porn in his free time, it is up to him.
You are paid to solve problems, not to create them.

That way he will appreciate your work.



Steven

 

[monkeylizard]

>>Surfing for porn or pornographic materials in a business can be grounds for a sexual harrasment lawsuit. <<

Absolutley. SH extends beyond what we usually think about it ("Hey babe, wanna get it on?"). Part of IT support means that we can be subjected to this inadvertantly given the nature of worms, virii, etc. However, when the activity is blatant and willful and you are exposed to it AND you are made to feel uncomfortable by it, it is sexual harrasment regardless of intent, gender, environment(some exceptions), etc. I'd say you have grounds. See a lawyer.

>>If the boss was forwarding sexually explicit material to other employees, or printing it off and leaving on his desk, them perhaps you could use the sexual harassment angle. Otherwise, it would be a a bit like a plumber fixing your boiler and catching sight of a pornographic magazine you had hidden away somewhere. Hardly sexual harassment. <<

Negative..See above. this was discussed in-depth in a recent HR graduate program I was in a few months back. A better analogy would be that the plunmber mentioned to you he found something that you may want to check out (hint-hint) and then coming back for a follow-up and the mag was still there. Now it's showing gross negligence and is grounds. Once, probably not. Twice, deffinately.

>>In an ideal world it would be that the company (remember a company is it's own legal entity) employed you to look after it's corporate network.<<

Negative on that. A corporation is its own legal entity where the owners are the stockholders. A company doesn't have to be a corporation. The OP indicated this person is the owner, so it's either non-incorporated or he's the major/sole stockholder. Either way, this person has employed the OPer, not the company.

**********
My opinion is that you spend an hour with an attorney (money well spent) and then (with legal advice of course) approach the boss, clean the PC one last time, and tell him in no uncertain terms that this is not acceptable to you. Either this stops now or you will seek legal action.

Be prepared that this may send you out the door, but then there's an easy case for unlawful termination and the sexual harassment lawsuit. Any decent attorney would take that setup in a heart beat and win big.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.

 

[attrofy]

The OP indicated this person is the owner, so it's either non-incorporated or he's the major/sole stockholder. Either way, this person has employed the OPer, not the company.

Splitting hairs if it's an LLC. In either case, the point remains that the OP was hired to look after the corporate network.

Also, virii created by porn sites do not necassarily subject you to viewing porn. Someone else mentioned that. Unless you get a "dialer virus" (rare in todays broadband world), or you are faced with having to remove nag sites, or browser specific lock-outs, chances are you can handle the virus removal without ever seeing a pornographic image.

clean the PC one last time, and tell him in no uncertain terms that this is not acceptable to you. Either this stops now or you will seek legal action.

I still stand by my claims that you are treading on shaky ground making any sort of demands. IF there are no illegal activities tied to his porn surfing, you are basically telling him based on your moral objections that he change his surfing habits, or you will be forced to make him change. How would the situation be any different if the original poster objected to particular religious sites, or even political sites? What about hunting or other sites taht the OP may MORALLY OBJECT to? The reason Sexual Harassment is consider harassment is because of the intent involved. Just like any other harassment - it is the intention to belittle, or make one feel "wrong" about their choices. The reason this takes on a "life of its own" in the corporate world is because of the time and money involved to iron out such lawsuits. As corporate policy, it is easier to say "anything that can be construed as offensive is disallowed". This does not mean that it is something that will hold up in court (except for violation of corporate policy). It just means that the company is willing to err on the EXTREME side of caution, as opposed to having to risk a lawsuit.

So is the owners intent to infect the network? No, is it his intent to spread pornographic images to others in the company? It doesn't sound like it. Is it a sign of bad decisions to use company equipment to surf sites that are better intended to be surfed at home? Yes. I personally don't think there is much grounds for a case, as the point of Sexual Harassment laws are to prevent Sexual Discrimination. From teh EEOC's web site:

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

It is arguable that his "physical conduct" is creating an "offensive work environment" but that is a long shaky limb to climb out on, as the intent is not there to create such an environment. Moreover, and more to the point of the law, it is tougher to show sexual discrimination (even if you don't like porn) if you have to remove virii from a network that was infected by surfing porn sites.

 

[monkeylizard]

Sexual harassment generally requires that a supervisor acts or knowingly condones the acts of other workers where another person is under undue pressure, influence or in a hostile environment because of sexual innuendo, comments, intimidation, or unwelcome requests for sexual favors.

In this situation, the supervisor is acting to create a hostile work environment for the OP, who is required to clean up the electronic mess afterwards as a part of his/her job function. There is, without a doubt, grounds for a lawsuit here.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.

 

[attrofy]

In this situation, the supervisor is acting to create a hostile work environment for the OP, who is required to clean up the electronic mess afterwards as a part of his/her job function. There is, without a doubt, grounds for a lawsuit here.

Only if he is subjected to looking at the porn (or related sites) while he is removing the infections. Just because a trojan or backdoor virus infects the network from a porn site, a "hostile work environment" is not created just to run spyware, adware, or virus removal tools. The cause of the infection is moot, if the OP can remove the virii without viewing porn, it doesn't matter how it got there. By creating ultimatims about surfing habits, or creating "lockdowns" at will, that is the OP creating his own "hostile work environment" for others - even if his actions are viewed only as "antagonistic". In either case, I would not recommend anyone treading down that road - it is just asking for confrontation where the OP will be seen as the "bad guy".

 

[monkeylizard]

Hostile Environment" is very subjective, and it's at the discretion of the person making the claim. If this work that the owner is acting to create makes the OP uncomfortable and the issue is of a sexual nature, that's generally grounds for a discussion with an attorney. The employee does not have to be subjected to pornographic images, just anything of a sexual nature (in this case, known porn surfing) that makes an environment that the employee considers hostile.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.