How can I move up?

[iwease]

Hi,

I've ended up working in places where the programmers are engineers (mechanical or marine) and not real programmers (they have poor knowledge of object oriented design and software architecture). This means that I am in a good position to take the lead on some projects if I can just get some sort of certification and a bit more training. So, what certification should I get. I'm considering either some sort or project management certification or some sort of software engineering certification. My degree is engineering physics although I have a strong understanding of programming concepts and practices (at least compared to everyone else in the office). I have only been working for a couple years but the offices I have been in are young companies with inexperienced software developers.

I don't really want to pursue the microsoft certification because:
- it seems so basic
- I've already learned most of that stuff at work if not already in school.
- it has too be renewed every so often
- it is also oriented towards microsoft products...I want something more universal

 

[iwease]

also, I could start doing an MBA...but it doesn't seem like there is really a point unless I get into a least a bit of a management position. Additionally, I am way more interested in the management/software engineering side of things then developing one small part. I like bringing the big picture together rather then working on one small piece of it (if possible).

 

[techwoman2]

I've ended up working in places where the programmers are engineers (mechanical or marine) and not real programmers (they have poor knowledge of object oriented design and software architecture)"

This part of your post points towards needing training in programming.

Are you looking into a certificate or graduate degree from a local university? If so in which city? I am studying the options myself and decided on a two year graduate study program as the certificates are not as focused on programming. Why not print the curriculums from these programs and compare course material? The problem is most certificates are for support, or networking not programming.

If you find one like that be sure to post.

techwoman2
Boston

 

[jbenson001]

Microsoft offer many programming certificates..

 

[mrdenny]

You should get certified in the programming language that you use at work. If you are a Microsoft shop than the Microsoft certs will be what you want. If you are a java shop than you'll want some java certs.

If you are writting apps then you'll want to look at the MCAD. If you are building enterprise solutions following the SDLC that you'll want to look at the MCSD.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000) / MCTS (SQL 2005) / MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005)

--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)

http://www.mrdenny.com

 

[iwease]

I guess those all seem like good things to get certification in...it's just that I've looked at some of the classes and they are generally on syntax, using the interface, and basic programming constructs (The microsoft ones did have a couple classes on some other things such as software architecture but not many). I'm more interested in learning software engineering practices, algorithms, computer architecture, and similiar courses that are not language specific. It is nice to know a language inside out, but once you know one very well, it is not too difficult to learn another on your own.

I'll look into some of those a bit more though. Maybe MCSD

 

[svanels]

I've ended up working in places where the programmers are engineers (mechanical or marine) and not real programmers (they have poor knowledge of object oriented design and software architecture).

What is their function? Delivering technical solutions for problems?
A program needs to do something, regardless if it is Java or some OOP technology. The interface is superficial, there is no need for a nifty program with a lot of bells and wisthles and at the end the the calculations of (salaries, forces, time a diver can stay under water etc.) are wrong.
The programming language is just a tool, just like a hammer. The quality depends on the piece handling in it.

Steven

 

[Tarwn]

svanels: I think thats why he he is looking for classes in the software engineering/computer science direction rathe than just language or technology specific.

I can think of two options:
1) take a few Software engineering courses at your local college (if they offer them later in the afternoon or at night). You could probably do one of these a semester and this will further your learning in software engineering, best practices, algorithms, etc
2) Look into MIS classes, etc etc

I am suggesting university classes only because training for a certification might teach you a few things, but usually those types of classes are geared towards teaching you only as much as you need to know in order to pass the tests. Some go further than others, but the last few MS-centric classes I attended were disapointing to me. They didn't really do more than barely scratch the surface of the concepts and weren't very good at pointing out the fact that there was more underneath. Plus they only applied to MS products.

Some of the more advanced MS classes are useful, provided you spend some time afterwards (or before) reading about the technology so you will know where it stops and MS's magic layers start.

Anyways, just my viewpoint and suggestions,
-T

 

[svanels]

So Tarwn you are also inclined to a graduate course?
Iwease mentioned an MBA, but that will be waaaay off programming.

Steven

 

[iwease]

I think I did a poor job of explaining myself, but you guys figured out what I was trying to say. Yes, i am looking more at the software engineering/comp sci direction rather then technology specific information. So, it sounds like the only certification here would be a graduate degree of some sort, not really something I can just do on evenings in a couple years.

Do you think it is valuble to just take some courses from universty without the intention of ever doing all the requirements of the degree (because if this was the case, it seems easier and cheaper to just learn the information on my own).

I should also mention, I am getting tired of business applications. I want to do some neat algorithms and math (so I'm looking for new work dealing with system modelling). I'm finding business coding a bit boring. I basically have to just find a way to make stuff happen (get information in and out of a db and stick it in a report).

I mentioned an MBA because I don't really want to be stuck coding business aps for the rest of my life. If that is where I'm meant to be, then an mba might at least gget me to the level where I don't have to code it. However, i think I might be to young to make real use of an mba right now. I probably need more years behind me first.

 

[svanels]

Looks like you are young and unexperienced, but an MBA is "pre-requisite" if you are aiming to be in the "upper clouds". There are companies that stimulate their "potential candidates" to obtain an MBA to prepare them for their future functions in management. On the other hand if you are the "floor-sweeper" and some day you come in with an MBA bull, that doesn't mean that automatically you are promoted to that Corporate Executive Officer (CEO) that they have been waiting on for so long. At the end the new born MBA leaves desilluded. I have seen this happening many times.
I would advice to have a chat with your supervisor/boss and ask him which "studies" he recomend to advance in the company. Don't know your function and responsibilities but I think he will be able to give you some guidance.
If you are working around technical people, probably he will advice some technical degree, short course or training which can help you develop your potential.

Steven

 

[kHz]

The top MBA programs typically have students with around 8-10 years of experience before starting, which brings a wealth of background for them to learn from and to share with others who can then learn from those experiences.

If you start an MBA at a top tier school without that experience you will not be able to contribute and will not be able to grasp everything as well as the experienced students.

 

[iwease]

kHz, I kind of agree too. But I also thought that if I got an mba right now, it might be a waste because ppl still wont' put me in management because I am too young. So, I will be jsut sitting there for years with an mba and then when I am old enough for management, ppl will say 'well, you've had an mba for all these years and you weren't in management. Why should you be in now'