Help: Hard drive or motherboard issue?

[noob24]

There is something very weird happening with my computer and I'm not sure if it's hard drive related or motherboard related.

Let me first start by saying that I bought this computer about a month ago (June 9 2005) and the store sold me the equipment for 500$Cdn tax included while a computer like that normally sells from ~700$+

It has a motherboard ASUS P4GE-MX and a 80 Go Maxtor Hard drive. Yesterday, the hard drive apparently crashed. I started receiving messages such as:
Disk read error
Press Ctrl-Alt Delete
and it alternates with another type of ALL CAPS error that tells me to insert a system disk and press enter.

I moved the Maxtor to another computer and put it as a slave. I think the boot disk record (or master boot disk record) has been corrupted or damaged. In windows XP, it tells me that the hard drive needs to be formatted. If I use a file recovery software like File Scavenger, I can still see the files inside this hard drive.

Going back to my initial computer with the ASUS P4GE-MX motherboard, I replaced the hard drive with a 250 Go Western Digital. I partitionned, formatted, reinstalled windows and after installing a couple of softwares and restarting the computer, I get a few hours later the same behavior as the Maxtor 80 Go. I get the
Disk read error
Press Ctrl-Alt Delete
and another type of ALL CAPS error that tells me to insert a system disk and press enter.

Now.. this is my assumption:
- It has nothing to do with RAM memory ( I upgraded to 256+512 = 768MB btw)
- It could be the motherboard (can there be viruses that go to the BIOS or something like that and programs them to destroy or corrupt boot records of hard drives?)
- I am very unlucky and I got myself two hard drives that are bad.

If anyone can help me on this, I would really appreciate it. I am completely desperate and depressed by this new computer.. plus I voided the warranty of the computer store, because at the price I bought, we are not even allowed to open the tower to make modifications -_- (aka adding a hard drive, memory, etc.)

Do you guys believe it is a hard drive issue, a motherboard issue, a virus issue or any other kind of mysterious issue?


Here are the complete specs of my computer (everything is new unless specified otherwise):

Intel processor P.4 2.4 Ghz 1MB Cache
ASUS P4GE-MX Motherboard
256 MB (Upgraded to 768 MB)
80 Go Maxtor Hard drive (replaced with a 250Go Western Digital)
CD-ROM reader (**USED** - not new)
One floppy drive
Video card integrated with the motherboard
Sound card integrated with the motherboard
Used keyboard and mouse
6x USB

 

[edfair]

My GI would be to assume that the problem is not related to the hard drives since two have failed the same way.
This can be M/B related, but you have to recognize that it can also be memory related.
What kind of cable on the drive? 40 or 80? Or blue connector on the M/B end?
The allcaps message should be "NO SYSTEM DISK, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND HIT RETURN".
This is a normal message when the boot sector gets corrupted.
You might want to get a dos version boot disk from

http://www.bootdisk.com

and download memtest (a google search will find it) and run it for a while. Sounds like the problem could be heat related but that is speculation for the moment.


Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[noob24]

The kind of cable on the drive are 40 pin connectors, the end of the m/b is a blue connector.

I will try to do a memtest.. i've downloaded the ultimate boot cd and burned a cd so i won't need the boot disk, but it has memtest inside so i'll check the memory.

I don't remember the exact all caps message.. but i remember havign read something about FAILURE.. I'm pretty sure it did not say no system disk.

I will post the results of the memtest when it's done.

 

[micker377]

Do you have a problem with light bulbs burning out more than normal? Power surges (refrigerator cycling on/off), can corrupt a hard drive in an instant. Can you reformat and set up one of the hard drives, and try the computer at a friends house? This could be a power problem (as stated), weak power supply, poor connection at the hard drive power plug, intermittant data cable, so many things. I would definitely see what, if any, warranty you do have. You may need a U.P.S. (Un-interruptable Power Supply), smooths out the surges and brown-outs.

 

[noob24]

I use a power surge (personal surge arrest), but it's pretty old. -- not sure if that is enough. The power supply is 400 W. Light bulbs at my house are doing fine.. they don't burn often and we rarely ever get power surges.

You are right about the warranty, i will try to inform myself with the vendor.

And i don't think that all of those could happen a 3 hours interval for my 250 Go Western Digital to behave exactly like my Maxtor 80 Go. (what i meant is that it took me 3 hours to reinstall software and do some stuff on my computer for my new hard drive to behave like my maxtor)

Yes it will be definitely be possible for me to test the hard drive on another computer, but something tells me they are going to behave just fine, but it's worth a try.

 

[micker377]

I meant to test the whole computer at a different location to eliminate a power problem. By-the-way, a "surge" protector is completly different from a U.P.S. A surge protector protects against surges (400 - 600 v. above normal). A U.P.S, maintains at 110 v, even when line voltage goes above or below rated voltage. A "surge" can fry a system, a "low voltage" causes reboots and scrambled hard drives.

 

[edfair]

And check the power supply supply switch. You get underpowered because it is rectifying 115 through the 230 circuits and you get stuff like this.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[ceh4702]

Brown outs is another problem. This is when the power company is having a hard time and the current power is lower or even fluctuating. Power supplies do not like fluctuation power. A UPS is a kind of power backup system that helps in cases like this. A UPS is a system that converts the power and charges a battery, then the battery power is converted back to 110 power or whatever power the computer uses. The UPS can handle power fluctuation and even temporary power outages. These types of conditions can kill a hard drive quite easily.

Windows XP is hard to fix when the Hard Drive Boot Sector is damaged. There may be some tools on the Internet for extracting your files or recovering the data on the DISK.

Here is a site that might help:

http://www.ntfs.com/products.htm

If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[edfair]

And it might be worth a download of the diagnostic disks for both drives. If they fail diagnostics you will know it was fate, otherwise it points to further troubleshooting on the system board.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[garebo]

I rant about this all the time, but for good reason. Go out and get, for around $100, a U.P.S. Its the best thing you can do for yourself for now and in the future.
I have 3 of them and the batteries in at least one of them are over 10 yrs old and still going fine, so they last a long time.
The problem with surge protectors is that the cheaper ones often only work once and then they still allow power thru them but they dont do their job and you think that they are. At least that is what i have read. A good quality surge protector will cost you $40 to $50 anyway, so you might as well just get a UPS. A UPS does so much more than a surge protector, its a surge protector and a brown-out protector and more. They have UPS's that cost more but mainly all they do is increase the time you get to shut down when there is a problem, and most cases the $100 unit will work just fine.
I have a box full of dead equipment from before i got UPS's and a very small boxful for after i got UPS's. There is only one item in that box. The problem is that computers are more delicate than our power system. Our power system was here long before computers came along and we plug our computers into a system that wasnt designed for computers so the surges and brown-outs cause all kinds of problems.
I wouldnt be surprised at all if that is your problem, not at all. And you dont even have to have the lightbulb problem that micker suggested. Thats one sign but, for example, we used to have that in our home and we dont anymore. They have improved the power at my house but its still not near as good as it should be.
A cheap power supply and no UPS would kill just about every part of every computer i have at my place! I have the box to prove it as all i did was install UPS's and i also started buying only quality power supplies. But i still have a pc with a standard power supply and its fine because its on a UPS when its running.
Needless to say, i agree with everything the people above me have written.






Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[noob24]

Ok.. everyone seems to think it's the UPS so i'll go buy a UPS

I did manage to get my data back by using an external drive enclosure and the GetDataBack software (by reading other forums threads )

I did ran some test on my memory though, and it did generate some errors on the tests, but nothing critical I think.

Nowadays, my hard drive is behaving better (The western digital 250G0 one), so I am thinking that maybe you guys are right -- (I haven't bought the UPS yet)

 

[micker377]

ANY error on memtest is a cause for worry. I'd replace, whether this is the main problem or not. Could cause problems "down the road".