Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations Westi on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
has ipo hurt your partner sales
- Thread starter aarenot
- Start date
I think he is asking if the introduction of VOIP products, such as Avaya's IP Office has cut into sales of the Partner ACS.
While I'm not a CPE vendor, as a Central Office technician, I am seeing a trend of migrating away from TDM based service towards IP service.
As of now, larger multi-site companies are leading the charge, but it stands to reason that smaller companies will join in as the cost of IP hardware and service drops. Right now, a major stumbling block for small companies is the monthly charge for a T1 loop. This may not be a problem for a mid-sized outfit, but most mom & pops can't afford T1 service, thus forcing them to use unmanaged VOIP service such as Vonage.
Many vendors feel that Avaya has made some major mistakes as of late, particularly:
1) Releasing the Partner ACS R7 before getting the bugs out.
2) Releasing patches for the R7 that solve 1 problem but create others.
3) Killing off the Merlin Magix.
In general, it would seem that substandard service, once not tolerated at all, is now deemed acceptable as long as "we save money".
Rumors that the One-X is being groomed to replace the Partner ACS are circulating about. I've read posts over on Sundance that the One-X has its own share of quirks that need to be addressed.
Avaya claims that they have no plans to kill the Partner ACS, but that's what they said about the Merlin Magix and we all know what happened this past April.
My thought is that Avaya would be smart to clean up the Partner ACS and keep it in production, at least for the near future, as not everyone will readily adopt IP.
(Returning soapbox to Ed over @ Sundance)
While I'm not a CPE vendor, as a Central Office technician, I am seeing a trend of migrating away from TDM based service towards IP service.
As of now, larger multi-site companies are leading the charge, but it stands to reason that smaller companies will join in as the cost of IP hardware and service drops. Right now, a major stumbling block for small companies is the monthly charge for a T1 loop. This may not be a problem for a mid-sized outfit, but most mom & pops can't afford T1 service, thus forcing them to use unmanaged VOIP service such as Vonage.
Many vendors feel that Avaya has made some major mistakes as of late, particularly:
1) Releasing the Partner ACS R7 before getting the bugs out.
2) Releasing patches for the R7 that solve 1 problem but create others.
3) Killing off the Merlin Magix.
In general, it would seem that substandard service, once not tolerated at all, is now deemed acceptable as long as "we save money".
Rumors that the One-X is being groomed to replace the Partner ACS are circulating about. I've read posts over on Sundance that the One-X has its own share of quirks that need to be addressed.
Avaya claims that they have no plans to kill the Partner ACS, but that's what they said about the Merlin Magix and we all know what happened this past April.
My thought is that Avaya would be smart to clean up the Partner ACS and keep it in production, at least for the near future, as not everyone will readily adopt IP.
(Returning soapbox to Ed over @ Sundance)
- Thread starter
- #4
dexman,
thanks for the reply, and it is good to hear from other than a cpe. your answer was correct about hwat i am looking for.
i have not had the troubles you mention with the r7 partener acs, it has been solid for me. i am not saying there have not been any valid issues with the r7, but i have only had one in the myriad of r7's i have installed.
since you work as a co tech, maybe i can pick your brain further. do you think that the smaller business will eventualy use services like fragmented t1's for voice and data more extensively using the circuit to replace their dsl, and their analog lines. will the lessened maint on the multiple copper lines needed for analog lines, and increase in technical force capable of installing circuits reduce the cost. with the increase in channel banks used for analog lines it seems the circuits are being installed anyway, so will that drive the cost of a pri, or other types of circuits down to the small business.
where i weork 1/3 of the analog lines come off a channel bank anyway since competition, and a lack of desire to increase the copper running into the buildings from the local telcos.
i do agree that all ip systems have not had the field deployment long enough to have as high a reliability level as tdm. the one exception i have seen to that is the shoretel solution's reliabil;ity, but they use vxworks for their os, which is probably as stable as tdm, or at least closer than windows, which we all know is lame.
You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.
thanks for the reply, and it is good to hear from other than a cpe. your answer was correct about hwat i am looking for.
i have not had the troubles you mention with the r7 partener acs, it has been solid for me. i am not saying there have not been any valid issues with the r7, but i have only had one in the myriad of r7's i have installed.
since you work as a co tech, maybe i can pick your brain further. do you think that the smaller business will eventualy use services like fragmented t1's for voice and data more extensively using the circuit to replace their dsl, and their analog lines. will the lessened maint on the multiple copper lines needed for analog lines, and increase in technical force capable of installing circuits reduce the cost. with the increase in channel banks used for analog lines it seems the circuits are being installed anyway, so will that drive the cost of a pri, or other types of circuits down to the small business.
where i weork 1/3 of the analog lines come off a channel bank anyway since competition, and a lack of desire to increase the copper running into the buildings from the local telcos.
i do agree that all ip systems have not had the field deployment long enough to have as high a reliability level as tdm. the one exception i have seen to that is the shoretel solution's reliabil;ity, but they use vxworks for their os, which is probably as stable as tdm, or at least closer than windows, which we all know is lame.
You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.
My guess is that any sort of T1 service will always be out of reach for small end users, like that sandwich shop, card store, churches and doctors offices. Loop charges are just too high for such service to make any sense for those users.
Businesses with multiple locations could benefit from some sort of T1 service, but that will most likely be in the form of converged services (think IP).
I've seen a drop off in Frame Relay installs. This is probably a result of raised interest in converged services.
With PRI, it will again fall back on the user's needs. A store with 4 employees probably wouldn't be a candidate for PRI, but get upwards of 10 or so POTS lines and maybe 20 employees and the ball game changes.
Businesses with multiple locations could benefit from some sort of T1 service, but that will most likely be in the form of converged services (think IP).
I've seen a drop off in Frame Relay installs. This is probably a result of raised interest in converged services.
With PRI, it will again fall back on the user's needs. A store with 4 employees probably wouldn't be a candidate for PRI, but get upwards of 10 or so POTS lines and maybe 20 employees and the ball game changes.
![[sad]](/data/assets/smilies/sad.gif "[sad] [sad]")
- Thread starter
- #8
thanks for the info.
the line where a circuit vs analog becomes cost effective where i am at is at about 7 analog lines. that may be to some degree a difference in cost of circuits in various areas. competition may have something to do with that, as in my area, you can get a circuit from about 4 to 7 providors depending on exact location. even more for ld circuits. many of the providors use a channel bank off of a circuit to provide analog lines already, in fact it is the norm here. sometimes even sbc who is the local telco who leases copper to their competitors uses channel banks. growth in the area may be pushing the telco to free up copper by this means to stave off increasing the copper infrastructure.
the market may be quite different here as we have two local telcos that run their own wire in some areas. one area wide, and one in targeted urban commercial areas.
You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.
the line where a circuit vs analog becomes cost effective where i am at is at about 7 analog lines. that may be to some degree a difference in cost of circuits in various areas. competition may have something to do with that, as in my area, you can get a circuit from about 4 to 7 providors depending on exact location. even more for ld circuits. many of the providors use a channel bank off of a circuit to provide analog lines already, in fact it is the norm here. sometimes even sbc who is the local telco who leases copper to their competitors uses channel banks. growth in the area may be pushing the telco to free up copper by this means to stave off increasing the copper infrastructure.
the market may be quite different here as we have two local telcos that run their own wire in some areas. one area wide, and one in targeted urban commercial areas.
You do not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you do not pay for.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question