Guidance for certification

[Ruban67]

Hello,
Need some helpful tips from you guys. I am planning to get some Microsoft Certification but don't know where to start and which one would be more worth full as per the present and future market.
My profile:Education level: Masters
Certification: As of now only CCNA
Work exp: Working as a Windows System Administrator since last 1.5 yrs. (Windows 2003 and Exchange 2007 enviroment)
My Manager has asked me to start up with some Microsoft Certi to make my way up but I am confuse with what should I start with.
Please let me know what you guys think.

Should I go with MCSE or should I go with MCTS. Or is there any other Microsoft Certi you would suggest for a System Admin.

Any kind of suggestion and information would be highly appreciated.

Thank you,
Ruban.

 

[kmcferrin]

At this point it depends on what you are doing. Let's start with explaining the certs, as MS has changed their naming and certification schemes in the past couple of years.

In the old system there were basically only a handful of certs available. You had:

Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP) - you earned this by passing any MS certification exam in the NT4, 2000, or 2003 track.

Microsoft Certified System Admin (MCSA) - You earned this by passing 4 exams (two related to 2003 networking, one for a client OS, and one elective exam)

Microsoft Certified System Engineer (MCSE) - You earned this by passing 7 exams (four related to 2003 networking, one for a client OS, one a design exam, and one elective exam)

There were also specializations for Security or Messaging that you could earn with your MCSA/MCSE that required additional exams.

Now, under the new certification scheme (which started with Windows 2008, more or less) the MCP, MCSA, and MCSE and retired. You can still earn those certifications, but only by taking Windows 2003 exams. The new certs are:

Microsoft Certified Technical Specialist (MCTS) - You generally can earn this by passing a single MCTS exam related to Windows 2008, Vista, Windows 7, etc. There are also MCTS exams for Sharepoint, Exchange, Desktop Support, SQL, etc.

Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) - There are many variations of this certification depending on what products you are looking at. Depending on what technology you want to be certified with it can be 3-5 or even more exams to earn one of these certs. In the Windows 2008 space there are MCITP: Server Administrator (roughly analogous to MCSA and can be earned with three exams) and MCITP: Enterprise Administrator (roughly analogous to MCSE and can be earned with five exams).

So depending on what you want to do, there are a number of options. If you want to pursue the Windows 2003 certification track then you would look into MCSA or MCSE. The following is purely my opinion, but...

I personally would be reluctant to begin the MCSE or MCSA tracks right now. Windows 2003 is still widely deployed, but companies are moving towards 2008 and the 2003 certification track isn't really much of a help going forward. Besides, you can earn an MCITP: Server Admin cert by passing just three exams, compared to a minimum of four exams for an MCSA. If you wanted to earn a 2003 cert, I wouldn't recommend going any further than MCSA. I would only recommend that someone pursue an MCSE at this point IF their employer were requiring it OR if they had already completed a significant part of the certification track OR if they had the knowledge and experience to be able to knock the exams out in the span of a couple of weeks.

So if I were starting from scratch now, I'd probably go with the MCITP:Server Admin. You will have to pass two MCTS exams (networking and AD) plus one PRO exam (Server Admin) to earn the cert. But the two MCTS exams also count towards the MCITP: Enterprise Administrator. If you have the MCITP: Server Admin, you only need three more exams to upgrade to the Enterprise Admin cert.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[kmcferrin]

Oh yeah...the best place for Microsoft certification information is

http://www.microsoft.com/certification

You can find info on all of their certification tracks there, along with the requirements for each.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[SimonDavies]

Just to add to this, it depends on what technology your company are going to be using and how long you plan on being there.

If they are not planning on going to Win 2008 any time soon then in my opinion you would be better off going down the route of the MCSE and then taking the bridging exam for the MCITP, if however your company does plan on migrating to 2008 in the next couple of months then go for the 2008 MCITP instead.

The last thing you want to do is get the certification and then not use the product for 6 months or more, you tend to lose any knowledge you gained if you don't use it.

I still see places using a mix of 2000 and 2003 environments (infact this time last year I migrated a company still using NT4).

Having any certificatation is great, whether its 2003 or 2008 it is a starting block for you.

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[kmcferrin]

That's a good point. If you have an MCSA or MCSE there is an "upgrade" exam that you can take to shorten the patch to MCITP: Server Administrator or Enterprise Administrator. The upgrade exam would take the place of the MCTS exams in that certification track, but you still have to take the PRO exams. So an MCSA can get MCITP: Server Admin by taking two exams instead of three, and an MCSE can get an MCITP: Enterprise Admin by taking two exams instead of five (assuming that the client OS exam that you took for your MCSE was either Vista or Windows 7 instead of Windows XP).

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[Ruban67]

Hi,
Thanks a lot for all this information. I am glad that I posted my question here. Thanks again.

Well the Company were I work right now, they are hard core Windows 2003. The only place were they use Windows 2008 is for TS Gateway which was one of my last project. And they won't switch to 2008 in near future.
Well I am an international student here in California and should be going back to Europe by end of this year. So looking at the bigger picture, I don't know where which company I will end up so I guess I should go with 2008 right now.
I am good with AD configuration and Management so I guess I would start with Exam 70-640.
Let see how it goes from here.

Thank for all the information again.

Ruban.

 

[kmcferrin]

It will actually be Exam 83-640 if you take it here in the States (or any other English speaking country). The 83- series are "performance based exams," meaning there is a high degree of simulation involved rather than just straight Q&A. There is a good article on it at Born To Learn (the official MS Learning blog):

http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/06/microsofts-virtual-lab-exams-going-inside-the-black-box

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[Ruban67]

OMG..!! I was so out of it. All the time I was thinking of 70-640. Thanks a lot for the information.
This is what I was referring the whole time

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-windowsserver.aspx#tab2

I did look around and yes if you want it to give in English then it has to 83-640.
Well as per the info I got, it seems that the study material is kind of same for both the exams other than 83* is more on the lab side.
I was also able to find some test center in LA. But I read of many other forums that the labs have way too many bugs and ppl do get disconnected every now and then.
But well since this is the only one offered in English so I don't think we have any other option.
Well again thanks for the info. I will now look for some study material for the 83-640. If you recommend anything then pls do update.

Thank you,
Ruban.

 

[kmcferrin]

The exam number is different, but the areas that you need to study are the same. The 70-640 material will be fine, I just didn't want you to go to schedule your exam and wonder why you couldn't schedule 70-640. The only real difference is the way that they test you. The 83- series exams are more "hands on," while the 70- series tended to be more "question and answer."

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[anationalacrobat]

How's the knowledge level in industry concerning the new exams? Many of the people I talk to who aren't directly certifying are still surprised that the whole MCSA/MCSE thing is going away. I have a feeling that the recruiters and HR people are still going to have no idea what MCITP is even a few years down the road. I've read microsoft's justification and I still don't understand why they didn't just retain the MCSE name for continuity while adding the specializations on after.

 

[kmcferrin]

You are correct. There is a large gap from between the time that Microsoft made the change and the time that HR/recruiter types get the message. This has been a common complaint for the past two years or so, and MSFT is making an effort to reach out to those people to try to get them better educated as to the changes that they have made.

MCSE and MCSA were a great brand, but they just weren't ready for the modern era. If you go back 10-20 years it would be likely that an MCSE would be an expert on most MS solutions, but today there are just far to many solutions out there for a generic certification to be able to cover them all.

Then there are the legal considerations. In some countries the term "Engineer" is a protected title that requires a certain degree of education, along with licensure, etc. MSFT was running afoul of some professional groups representing real engineers, and wanted to change things to avoid any difficulties.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[anationalacrobat]

Heh. I would have just redefined MCSE to be Microsoft Certified Expert. Changing the brand name, seldom a good move unless you're Arthur Andersen Consulting or Blackwater or ValueJet.

What's funny is there are two basic camps when it comes to how you should plan your career for the future. You fall squarely into the specialization camp which says that getting to know a narrow set of skills really well will allow you to make bank. The other camp says that specialization is for insects and you need to broaden your skills to avoid layoffs. My instructor for the MCSE class says he advises all of his students to do A+, Linux+, MCSE/MCITP, and Cisco. He's an IT director as well as an instructor and he says when he's looking at his staffing, the people he'll cut last are the ones who know the most, the ones he cannot live without.

Honestly, I can see good and bad to say for both camps. But it's very confusing when trying to determine my own course of study.

 

[kmcferrin]

Well, I have always tried to maintain a wide base of knowledge but specialize on one particular area. I am a general infrastructure guy (servers, storage, networking, security) but also specialize in virtualization. Virtualization helps keep the money rolling in, and the general skills allow me to play whatever role I need to if things get tight (or to avoid the dreaded layoff).

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[anationalacrobat]

I think that's a wise strategy. I've found myself working more on the customer-side. Last gig I was half of an IT department and did database stuff. Current gig I'm all database, getting reports out to users, administrating the database, excel, etc. I'm outside of the IT dept but work with them. But there's no telling what the next gig will be. Interface between customers and their database seems like a good position but it would also be good to bone up on the infrastructure side since those questions do crop up. But I figure even if we have the craziest cloud future, the kind of crazy where the phones are IP, the computers become thin clients plugging into the same rj-45 as the phone, when there is no server room, just all the cat-5 running back to a switch that connects to the T, there will still have to be people who understand IT and business process, who can tell the company how to store the data and how to work with it. And if the crazy future doesn't come to pass, I'm still ready for whatever does happen.

 

[pagy]

I like that idea of Microsoft Certified Expert, or Microsoft Certified Systems Expert. Too late now I guess.

I was out of work last year and discovered that recruitment agencies or employers did not know about the latest MS certs such as the MCITP. Some even asked for an MCSE on Windows 2008!! I had to explain to some of them that the cert for Windows 2008 now culminates in an MCITP either server admin or enterprise admin.

Paul
VCP4

https://www.mcpvirtualbusinesscard.com/VBCServer/PaulP/profile

RFC 2795 - The Infinite Monkey Protocol Suite (IMPS)

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2795.html

Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week

 

[anationalacrobat]

That's why people are posting "MCITP (aka MCSE 2008)" on their resumes. Those who don't know any better will get the idea and those who do know better will forgive you.

 

[SimonDavies]

Its funny actually, here in the UK I am not finding too many Agencies asking for MCSE\MCITP 2008 at all, maybe it's because I am more geared to the System Center products these days I don't know but people are still asking for 2003 MCSE's.

I am starting to see companies rolling out 2008 these days but I am on a project now that's actually just rolling out Vista (upgrading from 2000 and XP).

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[kmcferrin]

I am starting to see companies rolling out 2008 these days but I am on a project now that's actually just rolling out Vista (upgrading from 2000 and XP).

Ouch. I don't suppose that you can swing them to Win7 somehow? Even Microsoft is saying to avoid Vista these days.


________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCTS:Hyper-V
MCTS:System Center Virtual Machine Manager
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[anationalacrobat]

Vista? Run away! Run away! I feel a bit grumpy about Seven, they moved a bunch of stuff around but it doesn't really feel all that different. I know on paper it's supposed to bring more to the table than XP but I'm just not seeing it. It's windows. Click on stuff and it runs.

 

[tcsbiz]

In a low warning-style tone:

"Step away from the Vista. Step away from the Vista. Back up slowly and no one will get hurt."

I was in talking with a head hunter recently and she said that employers are starting to come up to speed on the new certs. But, she also said that, for some reason, fewer employers are asking for them.