GP Implementation : An end user manual?

[BackStageJim]

I'm wondering if since the referenced thread below from 2004 if any new insight has been found in the GP implementation. It is one of three vendors we are focused on, but like every company the implemtation cost are as high as the software.

I feel we can run the project well, but don't want to short change the 'freebee' time with useless dialog from the VAR. And, on top of it the only VAR local is one we're not too happy with due to the 'tude we receieved from salesman.






Reopening thread632-887312

This is why Artemis slew Orion ERP

 

[barbola]

I think the reply in the original thread has alot of validity. You need to involve users from the start, and if possible have them dedicate at least 50% of their time to the setup of the new system.

We were paying a consultant big bucks to do data entry and it took over a year for the setup, whereas it could have taken alot less time if there was an internal project leader to delegate the tasks and involve most of the users.

Have you dealt with the customer service people at the VAR's? They are the ones who you will be dealing with, as well as the support staff, and not the Sales person.

Our users also complained that they thought this was a great system that would save them time and could not understand that those five extra fields on the invoice entyr screen would save them hours of backtracking to find data for reports.

 

[BackStageJim]

Thanks Barbola,

I know that my users are 150% behind the ERP this time. Last go-around they were sitting on the bench ‘assuming’ everything would be better in a new system. They had no clue that things could, and did get worse. This is a small company with long time employees, so the ‘new blood’ was not there until I came along, months after the go-live date. At that point, in humor, they placed a ‘now serving’ sign outside my office.

My history is being an IT consultant in the Pharmaceutical world. So lengthy, big dollar projects are not new, and so is the padding many VARS add to already expensive software packages. So far we have not signed onto the GP bandwagon, and thus not green-lighted the VAR. But you know that warm fuzzy feeling you get; well I didn’t get that from this VAR.

Bottom line I will have to bite the bullet on 7/31, so ground-hog day begins again!


This is why Artemis slew Orion ERP

 

[btamulis]

BackstageJim,

I work for a VAR and I agree with your assessment. In most projects there is waste - usually, both sides of the equation are responsible. Most consultants feel the need to bill based upon physical time spent rather than the value of the activity performed. In addition, most consultants are involved with multi-projects - while on site at your facility they may be responding to e-mails from other clients, taking calls, etc. Finally, the greatest waste is when the consultant has various custom reports accumulated from various projects that are essentially portable - but the client is expected to pay full value as if they were created from scratch.

On the client side, most implementations I am involved with - the company implementing takes a passive approach - and I end up fishing and then feeding when I should be just teaching how to fish.

If you have three VARS - check references - check with your local Microsoft Rep (they usually know the local VARS and will make recommendations if pressed) - finally, not all VARS have expereince with manufacturing modules - if you are a manufacturer - be certain to find an expereinced manufacturing consultant.

General rule for most manufacturing implementations - services are 1.0 to 1.5 times the software cost and 10% for project management on the VAR side.

Good Luck,

Bron Tamulis, CPIM


Bron Tamulis, CPIM
Great Plains Mfg Consultant

 

[jazgeek]

I've worked both sides of the fence so I've got a unique perspective on this topic.

If your VAR is hungry for the business then you should negotiate a fixed fee implementation.

We just implemented an ERP system that integrates to our existing GP install and because we were a "high profile sophisticated prospect" we were able to negotiate a flat fee implementation. In the end it saved us considerable amount of money because we had control over deliverables and go-live requirements. The vendor spent a considerable amount of their own time improving their product offering without us being charged for it.

To be careful of though, make sure you think about post go live assistance. You don't want them charging you to answer silly questions. Budget in at least 1 week of go live assistance to be spread over the first 2-3 months of implementation.

Don't forget about report customization, make sure that all reports are customized prior to go live.

Take lots of meditation classes too... implementations are hell on your patience.



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and they wonder why they call it Great Pains!

jaz

 

[barbola]

Another comment on flat fees vs hourly rates:

When we upgraded from 6.0 to 7.5 we had alot of problems and had to abandon it and restore. The next time we paid them to come out on a weekend to help us. They quoted us a flat fee for our upgrade and we preferred an hourly rate and it's a good thing because we ended up paying only $1000 and their flat fee was closer to $5,000.

 

[jazgeek]

yes, they'll always give a flat fee higher because they don't want to get caught with their pants down.

what we did was let them quote it the regular way and then went back to them with a decent 10-15% over the "estimated implementation time" and demanded a fixed rate based on OUR calculations not theirs.

If they warble on that, then you can start hammering them on their abilities to implement according to their own methedology and timeframe. If they're confident in their implementation method then they should have no problem accepting 10-15% more than if they did it hourly.

Keep in mind too, these guys want your business and they try to low ball you to get their foot in the door. It's kind of hard to blow them off after you've spent 6-8 months in an implementation. The more you can load up on them and not have them charge you, the better you'll sleep at night.


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and they wonder why they call it Great Pains!

jaz

 

[BackStageJim]

Thank you all a lot to digest over the weekend.

<grabbing a cold beer> Ah! Time to blue pencil the RPF document.


This is why Artemis slew Orion ERP

 

[kpowellAtl]

BackStageJim,

I too have worked both sides of the fence. In fact I am not actually outsourcing to VARs that need experience, ethics and relationships. What troubles me most is you don’t feel comfortable with your VAR option. You may also want to consider another option...it too has pros and cons. You may need to bring in a VAR from another city. I actually have to travel from Atlanta to California for a VAR because the client can't get anyone they feel good with. A couple thousand more dollars for travel with a really good group will easily be recouped. (I know a really good group in Detroit that I have used in the past when I was with a VAR.

Consider the following:
1. Knowledge and experience
2. Partnership - you both have to trust and feel good about each other.
3. Support - A comment made earlier was don’t get charged for the silly questions. Very good comment - best bet is saving up several questions so you get one 30 minute charge rather than 10 15-minute charges. Most VARs will usually tell you to do it this way so they don’t get "bothered" on silly things and you don’t get mad for being charged. Also, with manufacturing, look at having someone a good bit for the 1st week onsite as well as a couple of days extra during the month. Then maybe for a day after 3 months to review efficiencies. Manufacturing can be more in-depth than just the basis financials or supply chain.

To make any implementation work Great Plains or other, you both have to work well together and have an internal team lead to work with the VAR.

Good Luck!