Good Bye

[Underbelly]

This isn't really a helpful tip but there was no type of thread to describe this post.

I just wanted somewhere to type my farewell letter to Quark. I would send it to Quark Customer Support but thats a oxymoron.

I've been using Quark since Quark 3.3 and have been a die hard user, ever defending it again all other programs like PM and Indesign but now have gone over to the otherside. Up until 2 weeks ago, I'd say go over to the dark side but not I'm pretty sure I'm leaving the dark side. The company I work for installed Quark 6.5 on our machines. They also put the complete CS package from Adode.

First thing I notice about Quark 6 is that everytime you launch it, it check to see if it is a registered copy through the internet. WOW! What happens the day our internet goes down. This is another lame attempt for Quark to keep its program from being illegially used. Remember the key you had to put between your keyboard and computer, or the floppy it came with it years ago? What a hassle. The competion doesn't make us just through hopes?

And the you can't downsave to older versions. That's insane. All Adobe programs can downsave (Illustrator can downsave to version 3). They will tell you it's just because of the new features in 6 but that not true. Photoshop and Illustrator have added tons of features over the years. You just get a simple warning when you save as older versions. It's really to keep people from opening Quark files in InDesign. (InDesign can open Quark 4 documents)

The 3rd problems I've noticed that most of there new features are all web related. Hey Quark, if I want to make a webpage, I'll use a program made for web pages not a page layout program!

Next there is the cost. The Adobe CS which comes with Photoshop/Illustrator/Go Live/InDesign/Acrobat Professions, cost less then Quark by itself. And they don't have any lamb internet security featues either.

So, so long Quark! Have fun!

 

[rickwells]

Well, I think you've convinced me that I should move to I.D. rather than upgrading Quark. Like you I've been using Quark forever and have been watching the news/comments etc on the Quark saga. I was beginning to come round to upgrading since Quarks backpedalling on customer help but this business of Quark checking via the internet everytime you launch....!!!!!! No, this is not good. Guess it's InDesign.
Tell me Underbelly, what is the I.D. learning curve like for you?

 

[MarcusStringer]

Let me just add...
InDesign can not back save to an earlier version. never could.

If you brought more that one copy of Quark at the same time, chances are you brought a site licence, which comes with Quark Licence Administrator, which, if set up correctly checks releases a licence everytime you open Quark, so it may look like it's connecting to the internet, but it's not, it's just connecting to the server where the Quark Licence Administrator has been installed.

The CS group of Programs came onto the market after, I think, Quark released Version 6.

So, how is Quark 6 suppose to open ID files if it came out first, and therefore, would have had to been able to read minds.

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[rickwells]

Marcus
You obviously feel the need to speak in Quark's defense which I find very refreshing. I would love to think that Quark 6 is going to work for me, but I hear of so many bad experiences relating to v 6.
I am still using v 4.11 on G4 mac OS9. Everything else I do on a G5 OSX. I would be happy if Quark 6 could be relied upon so that I could do everything in OSX. It would also save me learning another app. Any chance you could point out a few more 'plus' points for QuarkX against I.D.
The upgrade cost is a bit steep though.

 

[MarcusStringer]

I have had very little trouble with Quark 6.5, and I'm running around 20 machines, with both Quark and InDesign.

In Book production I've found that InDesign has a very bad tracking/letter spacing, with it's single line/Paragraph composser their use of shortcut keys for paragraph style and Charactor Styles is terrible.

Other then that, I can't really think of anything.

Also some RIPs hate the PDFs which are made from ID

InDesign also supports Transparency with is a bonus.

I would consider buying InDesign as it comes with the added bonus of brand new versions of Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat 7 etc.

I was was just adding my two cents worth, because if you were going to upgrade because someone told you you could do something and then find you can't, you would be disappointed.

If you do search in this forum, I'm sure you will find some more Pro's and con's.


Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[blueark]

Yeah, there was a lot of Quark bashing when ID came out, most of it justified. At least it seems to have lit a fire under them, and they're starting to improve at a better pace. 6.5 is getting there, and I believe the feature list for 7 is promising. On the positive side, QuarkXPress is generally a reliable, tried and tested production quality piece of software. While it lacks many of the features ID has, it's unlikely to cause any printer headaches.

But I'm glad ID came out. It has brought real competition to Quark, and is a wonderful application in its own right. I hope both applications continue to thrive so that neither company becomes complacant. In the end, it's us, the end users, that will come out on top.

 

[jmgalvin]

I think the inability to backsave to 4 is getting a lot of people mad at Quark.

There are so many people, mac users especially, who didn't bother with Quark 5. Those who upgraded to 5, and then 6, lost the ability to backsave to 4. You end up with any number of XPress users who cannot interchange docs. Since I don't have 6 (still have 4) i don't know if 6 opens 4 docs reliably. If it doesn't, that's an even bigger problem.

Quark is running around saying that they're now listening to customers. I can't believe they have not heard about this problem. It would behoove Quark to come out with an extension or something that would allow users of 6 to backsave to 4.

A good part of my work involves working with logos in Illustrator, saving as eps, and distributing them to page designers. I find that few have Ill CS. Quite a few are still on Ill8. In Ill CS I can save the eps to be compatible with any Ill version. I typically select version 8. I've never had one problem with a recipient.

With Indesign making big market strides, at a price point that kills Quark pricing, Quark has lost its ability to force upgrades. They now have to make customers happy. one way would be for them to allow backsaving to 4.

 

[rickwells]

jm's comment re opening Quark docs in version 6 - I mean you have a large publication done in v4 which needs updating and you're now working in v 6. Surely you don't have to do the whole job again ? I will assume that v6 can open v4 docs but can anyone tell me how accurately it does this. I use Freehand a lot and it's so easy to open earlier OS9 versions in MX. I haven't noticed any problems with the converted jobs.

 

[MarcusStringer]

I open and update old Quark files everyday.

Doing to job that I do, I have have file going back...well...a long time which get reused, reprinted etc. I have not had a problem with any of them.

As with people getting upset with not being able to backsave to 4...

Quark never could backsave more than one version. If you skipped a version (like me) then boo hoo, Supply PDFs that's what they are there for.

I don't understand why people would get upset over that.

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[blueark]

...especially as InDesign can't backsave at all! But I have to admit, I do think this is a failing of both apps. Illustrator and Photoshop etc have the right idea.

 

[jmgalvin]

To Marcus & Bluark

The problem is VERY big with a lot of Mac users - a sizeable % of Quark users. I'm looking at this from a "keep the customer happy" viewpoint - something that Quark needs to do a lot to stem the customer loss.

The simple fact that Q5 was an "upgrade" with very little benefit. If a Mac user had gone to OSX, 5 was pretty worthless. Most shops do not dump all the Mac classic machines at once and replace them with OSX machines. You end up with some people using Q6 and others using Q4. That can't collaborate on a document. You also have companies that work together, where some are on mac classic and Q4, others on OSX and Q6.

So the Q4 users would have to fork out $300 just to be able to work with the Q6 users - only to have to fork out another $300 when they get OSX machines. Multiply those by 10, 20, 40 users in a company and you're talking quite a few wasted dollars.

When Quark owned the market, they could play nasty and try to force upgrades. Indesign has changed that. My guess is that the people at Adobe are busy working on an import function for Q5/6. That alone would probably be a bigger marketing advantage than adding some new gadgets to their next release. If they could realease that as a standalone plugin soon, and Quark did not have the backsave to 4, ID would take even more of Quark's market share.

 

[blueark]

I completely agree, hence my statement about problems with backsaving being "a failing of both apps". If InDesign becomes as ubiquitous as QuarkXPress, all the problems you mention will still exist, only worse because at present there's absolutely no backsaving in ID. But at least it's cheaper to upgrade...

 

[MarcusStringer]

I also agree with you jmgalvin.
I droped a bundle upgrading all our machines, we went straight to OSX, which then forced us to get the CS programs which then forced us to get Quark 6, which will then force us to get Quark 7 when it's released.
We could have worked in Classic, but, I've found that's too unstable.

Quark has many down falls which hopefully will be fixed for Version 7, like, that ablilty to import Acrobat 6 PDFs instead od downsaving them to V 4.

And the backsave issue...

Also remember that Since Version 4 Quark has introduced elements of the program, which if backsaved would disappear due to V4's incompatability with these features.

So, Keep in mind, if they do make it it available the result may not be what you want.

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[roccot]

My opinion as to why Q won't back save to 4 has to do with possible font conflicts stemming from OSX. Back- saving to Q4 OS9 with a document using an OSX system font can create major headaches. People would think it was a Q problem when it is actually a font issue.

I have had no problem saving from Q6 - Q5 - Q4. Sure it took an extra 3 minutes but is that really that bad!?

As a printer I still prefer Q files although ID files are ok.

 

[jmgalvin]

Roccot:

As long as you have Classic installed (does not have to be running) on an OSX machine and you keep your fonts in the Classic System Folder's Fonts folder, they work in Classic and OSX apps. The only ones you have to worry about are the very few necessary System fonts, and they're not postscript.

You're a printer so you have to have the latest versions of apps so that things come out the way they'r supposed to. The creators don't need the latest version and Mac users had zero reason to get Q5 - and most did not buy it.

My points are strictly related to Quark's market loss. It would behoove them to make the conversion possible to stem the flow of users to more useful Indesign and/or the very low priced Creative Suite. If Adobe can come up with a Q5 or Q6 import filter, Quark would be dead.