jmd0252
Programmer
- May 15, 2003
- 667
General graphics question,, please register your opinion.. Nvidia or ATI??? and Why..
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Ggraphics brand you perfer..
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jmd0252
The Question is a bit of a No Brainer I'm afraid, bit like Intel versa's AMD it can only be truely answered by a more definative question about performance and features at a particular given price point.
For instance, at the $200 price point ATI just won the crown back from Nvidia's 6600GT with it's new X800GT
Take the price barriers down and the best gaming card as we speak is an Nvidia, the 7800GTX this flag ship card well and truely beats ATI's X850XT PE with better performance and extra features such as pixel shader 3.0 which the ATI card simply does not have.
So the question should be which do we prefer at £'sss/$'sss price point, the honours are sure to be passed back and forth right the way up the scale.
Martin
Martin
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The Question is a bit of a No Brainer I'm afraid, bit like Intel versa's AMD it can only be truely answered by a more definative question about performance and features at a particular given price point.
For instance, at the $200 price point ATI just won the crown back from Nvidia's 6600GT with it's new X800GT
Take the price barriers down and the best gaming card as we speak is an Nvidia, the 7800GTX this flag ship card well and truely beats ATI's X850XT PE with better performance and extra features such as pixel shader 3.0 which the ATI card simply does not have.
So the question should be which do we prefer at £'sss/$'sss price point, the honours are sure to be passed back and forth right the way up the scale.
Martin
Martin
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jmd0252
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- May 15, 2003
- 667
Very interesting point,, price not being an issue. I found it very interesting that the new xbox 360 went to ATI, and did not stay with the Nvidia. I have used both cards, and was looking at upgrading from my almost 3 year old Nvidia. ATI, seems to have a wider range of options than Nvidia, as with being able to do HDTV over your computer.
jmd0252
Well price not being an issue, then there is no doubt that the 7800GTX is the best gaming card at the moment.
As for decisions on GPU's in gaming consoles:
The whole process of research and developement for such devices takes much longer, choices about chip suppliers are taken many months in advance of product launch, basically they don't know when they make the choice who is going to be top dog 12/14 months down the line.
And although I recommended the Nvidia 7800GTX I personally run an ATI X800XT (just so you don't think my opinion is because I run an Nvidia)
Martin
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Well price not being an issue, then there is no doubt that the 7800GTX is the best gaming card at the moment.
As for decisions on GPU's in gaming consoles:
The whole process of research and developement for such devices takes much longer, choices about chip suppliers are taken many months in advance of product launch, basically they don't know when they make the choice who is going to be top dog 12/14 months down the line.
And although I recommended the Nvidia 7800GTX I personally run an ATI X800XT (just so you don't think my opinion is because I run an Nvidia)
Martin
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The crown of the best card just changes from time to time. Before Christmas ATI will take it again with the R520, and next spring Nvidia will have its new generation at the top. So it is just a matter of where to find the best deal at the moment, knowing that six months later your top of the line graphics card will be obsolete.
The most powerful card does not mean that it will work fine with every game and that the drivers will work flawlessly in everyday's applications.
So it all depends on where your priorities are.
The most powerful card does not mean that it will work fine with every game and that the drivers will work flawlessly in everyday's applications.
So it all depends on where your priorities are.
I agree with most of what's been said. ATI and Nvidia trade crowns regularly. I used to use exclusively Nvidia cards, but the last time I bought one the Radeon 9700 Pro was the fastest thing out, so I bought it instead. I haven't had issues with either one.
Regarding the Xbox 360, not only are these decisions made months in advance of there actually being shipping silicon, but price plays into the equation quite a bit. If the ATI chip costs a dollar or two less than the Nvidia chip, it will probably get the nod on the console front. Console pricing is extremely sensitive because profit margins are so thin on them (or nonexistant). For example, the Xbox 360 is supposed to debut at around $300, roughly the same as the original Xbox did. But last time around that $300 also got you a hard drive, whereas the hard drive is now optional (the model with the hard drive will cost you $400). Obviously the other Xbox 360 internals are costing more money this time around.
Regarding the Xbox 360, not only are these decisions made months in advance of there actually being shipping silicon, but price plays into the equation quite a bit. If the ATI chip costs a dollar or two less than the Nvidia chip, it will probably get the nod on the console front. Console pricing is extremely sensitive because profit margins are so thin on them (or nonexistant). For example, the Xbox 360 is supposed to debut at around $300, roughly the same as the original Xbox did. But last time around that $300 also got you a hard drive, whereas the hard drive is now optional (the model with the hard drive will cost you $400). Obviously the other Xbox 360 internals are costing more money this time around.
I am a power addict. I upgrade every year, and every year I must have the best.
Until the GeForce 4, Nvidia was the best, hands down. So I bought Nvidia. Then, with the FX range, Nvidia lost it, and ATI got it right with the Radeon 9800. So I bought a R9800 pro.
Now, Nvidia is again the best. So I bought the 6800 Ultra, then the 7800GTX.
In a few weeks/months, ATI will respond. Will they be better ? Maybe. Will it matter ? Not to me.
Sometime next year, I'll be upgrading again. At that time, my choice will depend directly on the benchmark results of the latest high-end card. That is my decision process.
If, tomorrow, a miracle happens and S3, or even Matrox, suddenly bring out a card that can knock out ATI and Nvidia, then I'll buy that one (maybe, reliability is still a factor).
ATI or Nvidia is really not my argument. I just want the best.
Pascal.
Until the GeForce 4, Nvidia was the best, hands down. So I bought Nvidia. Then, with the FX range, Nvidia lost it, and ATI got it right with the Radeon 9800. So I bought a R9800 pro.
Now, Nvidia is again the best. So I bought the 6800 Ultra, then the 7800GTX.
In a few weeks/months, ATI will respond. Will they be better ? Maybe. Will it matter ? Not to me.
Sometime next year, I'll be upgrading again. At that time, my choice will depend directly on the benchmark results of the latest high-end card. That is my decision process.
If, tomorrow, a miracle happens and S3, or even Matrox, suddenly bring out a card that can knock out ATI and Nvidia, then I'll buy that one (maybe, reliability is still a factor).
ATI or Nvidia is really not my argument. I just want the best.
Pascal.
I think it is too early to say whether ATi will regain the performance crown. Too much speculation regarding the R520 at the moment. There are rumours about it being a 16-pipe design, 24 or even 32! If it is only 16 then it is going to have to be able to run a very high core speed to catch NVidia, probably 600 to 650MHz. Unless that is they have radically redesigned the pipeline architecture.
The concern for ATi is that if they are relying on core speeds and possibly memory speeds, is how high the yields are going to be which will affect the availability of the cards. They don;t want another X800XT situation on their hands where hardly anyone could find one to buy.
addy,
Well, it has all but been confirmed that the new R520 will run at speeds of 600MHz or higher. The original proposal was 700MHz based on a new manufacturing process, but that has yet to be official.
While it does sound like ATI is stretching old technology thin, consider this. The release of the R520 took a long time since it's core was being redesigned from the ground up. 16 pixel pipelines was mostly a rumor, and I have seen no indication to date from ATI that it will have less than 24 pipes. All that doesn't matter anyway, as the next major step from both companies will likely be unified shader architecture which combines both vertex and pixel shaders into one unit. The Xenon GPU on the XBOX 360, for example, has 48 of these "shared" pipelines.
Nvidia, on the other hand, went the route of "refining" its existing architecture by using less power and processing more instructions per cycle (6 instead of 4). There is speculation that in their next release, dubbed G80, the unified shader architecture will be used and won't appear until mid-2006.
So there's nothing more than speculation at this point! Over the last couple years every new, major release from ATI has been solid and ground-breaking, and I see no reason the R520 will be any different...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Well, it has all but been confirmed that the new R520 will run at speeds of 600MHz or higher. The original proposal was 700MHz based on a new manufacturing process, but that has yet to be official.
While it does sound like ATI is stretching old technology thin, consider this. The release of the R520 took a long time since it's core was being redesigned from the ground up. 16 pixel pipelines was mostly a rumor, and I have seen no indication to date from ATI that it will have less than 24 pipes. All that doesn't matter anyway, as the next major step from both companies will likely be unified shader architecture which combines both vertex and pixel shaders into one unit. The Xenon GPU on the XBOX 360, for example, has 48 of these "shared" pipelines.
Nvidia, on the other hand, went the route of "refining" its existing architecture by using less power and processing more instructions per cycle (6 instead of 4). There is speculation that in their next release, dubbed G80, the unified shader architecture will be used and won't appear until mid-2006.
So there's nothing more than speculation at this point! Over the last couple years every new, major release from ATI has been solid and ground-breaking, and I see no reason the R520 will be any different...
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Anyway, you got the picture. 
It's a bit more complicated that the AMD vs Intel CPU question, but there isn't a good or a bad choice. Get informed, and don't buy what the sales guy want you to buy. He wants you to buy what makes him do the best margin, not the best product for you.
It's a bit more complicated that the AMD vs Intel CPU question, but there isn't a good or a bad choice. Get informed, and don't buy what the sales guy want you to buy. He wants you to buy what makes him do the best margin, not the best product for you.This is definitely the most important advice. Over the last 3 - 4 years, ATi and NVidia have released an incredible amount of different versions of their cards, which on first inspection all look pretty similar but can have huge differences. You will see all sorts of suffixes, such as SE, LE, GT etc. Be careful to find out exactly what the specs are before buying, what may look like a bargain may in fact be a poor performing card.
Another thing to consider? DRIVER SET STABILITY!!!! Here is where the ATI excels. I have had too many problems with nVidia driver sets not liking something about some anti-virus software or something else... ATI beats the nVidia handily here. There's my two cents!
carpetbelly
Technical User
I'll agree, my nvidia drivers I find to be far more stable, Call of Duty especially...
Also, I went back to nvidia as I didn't want to wait for ATI to release drivers for a 64bit linux OS where as nvidia had them when I bought my AMD64...
Also, I went back to nvidia as I didn't want to wait for ATI to release drivers for a 64bit linux OS where as nvidia had them when I bought my AMD64...
So in other words, your mileage will vary!
For those of you who go back 5 years or so, you would know that ATI used to have a long history of buggy drivers and compatibility issues. The Radeon 7000 was the first that started to turn things around. By the Radeon 8500 and 9xxx releases, driver issues had almost entirely been cleaned up.
Nvidia has always been a hit & miss ordeal over the years, but seems to have stabilized since the release of its the GeForce2. Nvidia happened to enter the market mainstream right when ATI was at the peak of its driver issues.
So depending on what time period you're talking about, or how much experience the person you're talking to has, you're going to get different opinions no doubt!
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
For those of you who go back 5 years or so, you would know that ATI used to have a long history of buggy drivers and compatibility issues. The Radeon 7000 was the first that started to turn things around. By the Radeon 8500 and 9xxx releases, driver issues had almost entirely been cleaned up.
Nvidia has always been a hit & miss ordeal over the years, but seems to have stabilized since the release of its the GeForce2. Nvidia happened to enter the market mainstream right when ATI was at the peak of its driver issues.
So depending on what time period you're talking about, or how much experience the person you're talking to has, you're going to get different opinions no doubt!
~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Definitely by the 9xxx series but the drivers for the 8500 were horrible IMO. The card had the potential to be a great card, better than the GF3's, btut he drivers held it back. When ATi finally got the drivers right for it, NVidia released the GF4 and it was blown out of the water anyway.
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jmd0252
Programmer
- May 15, 2003
- 667
Wells it seems to me, like it will be a continueing battle between the 2 boys. I have used both cards, currently nvidia. ATI, does seem to have some great "add-ons", for its product line. So IMHO,, decide on what you want your card to do, then shop wisely.
jmd0252
What is it you want the graphics card to be able to do? i.e. Are you a general user who surfs the net etc. or do you intend to watch a lot of movie files or are you a gamer who wants to be able to run the latest games well?
Identifying your requirements exactly is the best thing to do first.
What is it you want the graphics card to be able to do? i.e. Are you a general user who surfs the net etc. or do you intend to watch a lot of movie files or are you a gamer who wants to be able to run the latest games well?
Identifying your requirements exactly is the best thing to do first.
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