Getting the Sack 5

[Qube]

It looks like I am going to be getting fired from my current position as IT Manager for a small firm. I know this because I have seen a document which is an advert for my position. So I am in doubt that it is going to happen.

What I want to ask is where do I stand on telling people the administrator password and other such things?

Do I have to co-operate?

There will be no hand over with the new person starting so it is not like he will ask me.

Any advice on this matter would be of great help.

Thanks in advance

 

[AnanthaP]

Qube.

I would concentrate my energies on "moving on". (This was also said in an earlier response).

If you think that there is no particular reason to sack you, but you "...found the document whilst doing a test restore of a user account from backup tape. Which is part of my job....", I would think that
(1) Can you try to find out what is the exact requirement of your job as your hiring department sees it.
(2) Other thing is that it could be an unwritten policy (called as worst practice). Just before your year is up, they are trying to sack you to get a fresh guy (lesser salary of course). If so, move out fast and professionally.

End

 

[GlenJohnson]

Been there, done that. My employer downsized and moved me out to the shop floor running machinery. Good news, once I got my MCP while still in IT I started Johnson Computer Consulting which is where I make my money. Employer is only 401K and insurance. Also brought in my own hard drive when I went to IT because the one that was in my pc was to small in my opinion, so when I was moved, the hard drive moved also. (Just for future reference, if the pc is theres, but the hd is yours, you can take the hd with you.) As to what to do, be professional. Give them any info they ask for, and anything they need to know that they don't have enough brains to know to ask. When I was moved out to the shop floor, I handed over a complete list of documentation of the network including what was done to the servers and what needed to be done. Good luck.

Glen A. Johnson
"Give the laziest man the hardest job and he'll find the easiest way to do it."

Want to get great answers to your Tek-Tips questions? Have a look at FAQ219-2884

 

[johnwm]

Glen,
You say :< (Just for future reference, if the pc is theres, but the hd is yours, you can take the hd with you.)>

I suspect there may be a grey area here! Although the physical hard drive may be yours, any work done on that hard drive in your employers time belongs to them. Be sure to distinguish between medium and data! If you were my former employee and I found you were stealing company data, I'd pursue the matter strongly, not only through the courts, but to ensure you never got another job in a position of trust.

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

 

[strongm]

>another job in a position of trust

And having watched a friend of mine remain out of work for two years in the wake of committing a single foolish (and somewhat thoughtless) act that destroyed years of building up the necessary reputation to hold a position of trust, I'd also advise against doing anything too foolish

 

[MasterRacker]

My thought on this is to be proactive and give them every password you can think of that you know and urge them to change all of them as soon as you are out the door. Document this as well. Do this not only to be professional leave on a high not, but also to protect yourself.

Hypothetically, 6 months from now, one of their systems is compromised. The new admins were'nt aware of it or hadn't changed the password. Investigation shows that you knew that password. Having been involuntarily released you would be a prime suspect.

Be as cooperative as you can and document how cooperative you were.




Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...

 

[bluedragon2]

Just maybe, the document you found was the one they used to hire you with...



[Blue]Blue[/Blue] [Dragon]

If I wasn't Blue, I would just be a Dragon...

 

[CosmoKramer]

Qube,

< slightly off topic >

Just curious.....

While reading this thread I was struck by the apparent lack of shock, frustration, bewilderment, etc. over your potential firing. Is this something you may have seen or felt coming??

Trying to put myself in your shoes, and realizing that if management's mind is made up there might not be anything you can do, I would still probably be more concerned about why my employer would potentially be secretly looking to replace me, rather than worrying over the terms to leave them on.

Hoc nomen meum verum non est.

 

[Qube]

I have half suspected it since before christmas.

The reason behind it is that they want to remove myself and one other person who looks after the building maintenance air con etc and combine the role into 1. They also want someone to travel to another site which is 3 hours drive away.

Also I think they are going to offer the position to a friend of the bosses son. But there is no proof on that.

Bluedragon2:- The file is new as it was created 14th Jan 2004.

 

[lasmith05]

I was laid off and replaced by a IT consulting firm. My boss was fairly reasonable about the whole thing, and provided good references as well as severance, so I cooperated fully. Regardless of the circumstances you should always give up the administrator passwords and keys. You don't own that stuff. If you were let go under dubious circumstances, then I wouldn't volunteer what projects I was working on, or maintenance that should be performed. IMHO if they think someone else is better at the job, let them prove it.

 

[harebrain]

This job description must be a doozie:

- IT Manager
- HVAC Technician
- Janitor
Must have own transportation. No experience desired.

 

[ANFPS26]

He or she will be expected to mow the grass once a week and all this for $5.00 an hour. They probably prefer an illegal alien for this job, also.

Jim

 

[Bob1112001]

Long thread so hopefully I didn't miss this already. Why don't you talk to your boss about what you found and what the reason for the posting is? It is very possible that they are posting for the other site or to give you help, but if it isn't at least you can level set with your boss and maybe work out any issues.

 

[gbaughma]

Interesting thread... and, as usual, I can't help but stick my nose into it.

1st: Yes, it's the IT person's job to make sure that backups are performed, and restores are tested.

2nd: Formatting the drive is a bad thing; it raises suspicion, and without being too judgemental, the statements about cookies/files/history made *me* suspicious. I know right now that if they walked into my office and walked me out of the building, that they could go through my computer and there wouldn't be so much as one off-colored joke on my system. I wouldn't have to worry about formatting my drive. Besides, what are they going to do, fire you if they find a picture on your PC? They can't report that in a reference (just stuff like &quot;Yes, he was always at work on time, no he didn't take an unusual amount of sick days&quot;. Of course, some stuff is illegal, (i.e. child porn) and that could be a whole different ballgame. Once again, not inferring anything, just making a point.

3rd: If you got paid to do it, develop it, etc. it belongs to the company. In fact, if you signed a non-competitive agreement, depending on the terms, you may not be able to go out and do similar development for a competitor for a time period. I had to deal with that once with medical software that I had written. I don't do non-competitive contracts anymore.

4th: Taking #2 into account, there are things that past employers can do to mess with you; questions not answered, terse responses, &quot;canned&quot; responses put doubt into future employers' minds.

Just to follow up with a little story of my own. I left the employ of a company for which I had set up a pretty good sized ISP (about 750 users in all). I also do consulting at a couple of banks. After I left, people came up and asked me if I was going to do something to the ISP. Statements like &quot;I know you could screw them over good, if you wanted to. You gonna?&quot; My answer was &quot;Yes, if I wanted to, since I know they haven't changed all 750 passwords (and I have relatives using the system still, and I could get their password if I wanted it.) BUT, why would I tarnish my reputation (and thus lose my consulting business as well) over something as piddly as revenge? I wouldn't be winning that situation at all. Best to let them realize their own mistake.&quot; And the mistake was, that within a year, since there was nobody to maintain it, the system went down and was discontinued.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this;
As IT professionals, it's understood that we have access to things a normal employee wouldn't. We can see payroll stuff, we can see medical stuff, we are (supposed to be) the first ones told when someone is getting the sack. WE MUST MAINTAIN A HIGHER LEVEL OF INTEGRITY.

The passwords are theirs, not yours. The work you did that you got paid for by them is theirs. The reputation is YOURS. Don't ruin it over something as petty as withholding the password. If you had a company car, would you refuse them the keys?

I'm done rambling. Flames will be redirected to /dev/nul

--Greg

 

[MDXer]

If you are fired or laid off non competes are typically not enforcable unless it is part of a severance agreement, but every state does handle them in different ways so it is best to check exactly what the law is in your area.

As for companies giving bad references many companies will only verify employement in a manner that is neither positive or negative for fear of being sued. Some large companies have policies requiring a positive reference except under extreme cases then it is neither negative or positive.

The best thing to do as every one has stated is be proffesional in your departure. Also try to secure personal references from immediate managers who have a good opinion of you.

I have been laid off twice and had a long term contract canceled in the past 4.5 years. I was never out of work longer than 8 weeks. On my departure from each company I was able to secure personal and in some cases written references from Senior Management I have more C*O and VP references on my resume than I do straight managers. I like to believe that the quality of my skills and the quality of my references is what helped me secure work as fast as I have been able to.

&quot;Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!&quot;
- Daffy Duck

 

[OhioBill]

You want to screw the company over? Show a little resentment over a wrongful dismissal? Here's how.

Forget about this &quot;Maybe it really isn't true&quot; stable dressing. You know your being fired, the company knows, the company just doesn't know that you're aware of the situation. Your time with this particular slice of heaven is finished and the party's over. Don't slam the door on the way out.

Put your energy into finding another position. Rework your resume and start sending it out, and when you get a lead chase it hard. You'll get an offer, maybe more than one. Negotiate pay and benefits with your new boss and set a start date. Now comes the fun part.

The night before you turn in your letter of resignation, clean all personal effects out of your office or cube. Your space should look like a Motel room - unlived in. Wipe the hard drive... of all personal information and Internet tracks. Then, right after your morning coffee, you get to turn in your letter of resignation and watch while your boss, the same so-and-so who stabbed you in the back, reads the letter. Then you get to tell him (her?), regretfully, that for the good of your future you must leave, that it's been real and it's been fun, but the party's over. Of course you'll stay for the customary two weeks, and naturally there are no hard feelings.

Remind this &quot;person&quot; that two weeks will certainly give the company enough time to write a recommendation you can take with you. Meanwhile, you can work on a folder of critical information that the next poor schmuck will need to keep the train on the tracks.

Don't, for Lord's sake, damage anything. The thing that will cause these idiots to chip their teeth is your own personal advancement and well-being.

I have enjoyed a long career that could be described as colorful. I've never once left a position, voluntarily or otherwise, and not found a better position later on. I'm confident that the same thing will happen to you.

 

[MDXer]

I agree with OhioBill.

I have always come out of a company with a better skill set than a started with. I always have found a better position than what I had. Just remember better isn't always defined as a Higher Salary.

&quot;Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!&quot;
- Daffy Duck

 

[Dollie]

Any updates, Qube?