Getting good quality images with InDesign.

[Hopefulwriter]

I originally sent a PDF to a printer/publisher for a book in PageMaker. I had made sure the images were 300 dpi (were .tif). I had grayscaled the images in Corel Photopaint. The book came back with the images lighter than we had hoped. I was advised that my pictures weren't 300 dpi, but I doublechecked and they were, and in most cases I hadn’t increased their size. A tech person then said he would help me. He “enhanced” the pictures by importing the book into InDesign and “tweaking" them with Photoshop. Unfortunately, he moved them and I had to buy InDesign to put them back where they belonged. I then made a PDF by exporting directly from InDesign but when we ordered more books and found the quality was even worse, I am questioning whether I did something wrong. I also used Adobe Acrobat Prof. 7 and Reader 7. I don’t understand flattening the images. I do not have Photoshop or Illustrator or Microsoft Publisher. I had scanned with Microsoft Picture It. Do I need to rescan my images (pictures) and do a higher dpi? (I have about 75 pictures) Do I need to get another program to flatten them? Or could it be the way I sent my PDF? I recontacted the fellow that “enhanced” the images and he emailed back that he is very poorly and can’t help me. I had paid him quite well too. So I need HELP. Thanks to anyone who can advise me.

 

[eugenetyson]

Hey, if you want to post a link to your PDF, by using

http://www.yousendit.com

I will take a look.

There is contact information on my blog, if you want to send me the images, indesign file and fonts, I will have a look at that for you too.

It's hard to know until the files are seen.

Even screen shots might help

Eugene

http://www.doozler.blogspot.com/

 

[apepp]

...the thing with pdf files is that images can end up compressed to a lower resolution depending on pdf settings upon export/pdf creation...

...also if your images aren't a true greyscale (maybe RGB grey or CMYK grey) it is possible that the print provider only output the black separation, this results in data loss, and likely a lighter image...

Andrew

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

When I make a PDF for a service provider, I use ZIP compression for images, and my images are 300-600 dpi (depending on the provider and the product).

The PDF files sometimes come out large, but it's worth it, because it's exactly the way I want it to look.

It sounds as if you might have produced a JPG compressed PDF, and the printer compounded the matter by not providing you with a proof. Did they offer you a proof?

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[eugenetyson]

I have the files here. It just looks like the images need to be touched up. I'm working on it at the moment and with the original poster.

Good points so far, although, why use compression for images at all? Leave the images uncompressed, that way you lose no image quality.

http://www.doozler.blogspot.com/

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

why use compression for images at all? Leave the images uncompressed, that way you lose no image quality."

ZIP compression is not lossy.

Makes the PDF file a little smaller, especially if your images are, say, screenshots and other images with lots of large one-color areas. For me, that might be small enough to fit on a CD-ROM.

For emailing, one probably compresses using JPG to make the PDF emailable without anoying the recipient.

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[apepp]

...yes, there are indeed multiple reasons to use compressed pdf files...

...it all depends on final intentions, typically anything we do at work in house are RAW pdf files, simply because we have enormous amounts of storage space...

...also all imposed pdf files created by prinect workflow are RAW, with todays processing capabilities RIPs can churn through massive amounts of data at crazy speeds too...

...once APPE is fully supported by Heidelberg transparency will also become a lot less hassle than has been, with quicker render times too...

Andrew

 

[apepp]

...i still think adobe need to work (if they'll ever be a fix) on how acrobat renders flattened 1.3 pdf spot colors, i get tired of explaining overprint preview to clients at times...

...but this is usually when quark is involved...

...in fact quark is a bigger pain really...

Andrew

 

[eugenetyson]

Andrew, have you tried Acrobat 9. That overprint preview isn't a problem anymore.

Ed I know what you're saying but I thought I'd add to it.

Zip compression in 4 bit reduces quality. From acrobat 4 onwards it uses 8 bit compression, which is fine.

It's important that people don't use zip compression if they create a PDF for acrobat 3, they could inadvertently use the 4 bit compression.

The 8 bit compression for zip is better than LZW though, well not better, but smarter.

Also, if you're processing a PDF that has zipped algorithm images through a RIP or other process it can lead to longer RIP and processing time, because it has to expand all that algorithm.

It also takes longer to create the pdf, as it's compressing the images using the zip algorithm.

For a document that's heavy in images or large images, then it can prove a lengthy PDFing and RIPing process.

For those that are unsure about the compressions there's some stuff here.

http://www.prepressure.com/pdf/basics/compression

http://www.doozler.blogspot.com/

 

[apepp]

...no, not looked into acrobat 9, trouble is we need pitstop to run in acrobat pro, i think that is only good with 8 at the moment, not only that, but most of our clients are still running acrobat 6 pretty much, some don't even know the difference between reader and professional either...

...some don't even use adobe acrobat viewers...

...i think adobe only have reader 8 out at the moment too, 9 appears to be a purchase only at present as far as I've seen...

andrew

 

[apepp]

...no, sorry, correction, just looked and reader 9 is available for mac/windows, which means explaining to people to download it...

...assuming they have an OS that can run it...

...blimey, so many hoops we have to jumo through eh?!!!...

andrew

 

[Hopefulwriter]

Wow, what response! Guess I started all this discussion. Yes, Edward, we did get a proof (actually a book we paid for wholesale). That is how we knew the pictures weren't good. I read all your responses, but I am not very tech savvy, so I took Eugene up on his offer to check over my content and help me out. Thanks to you all, and especially to Eugene. Cheers. Arlene

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Eugene writes "Zip compression in 4 bit reduces quality. From acrobat 4 onwards it uses 8 bit compression, which is fine."

Jinkies! Good to know. Thanks!

"For a document that's heavy in images or large images, then it can prove a lengthy PDFing and RIPing process."

Yes indeed. I warn 'em every time and they blow me off. Then, fifteen minutes later, they start realizing that I was serious... 8)

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[Hopefulwriter]

I would like to thank all who answered my questions, and especially Eugene. I purchased InDesign and downloaded GIMP and the pictures improved some. We have had some delays due to changes the author made, but now we are ready to send in the final copy. I wanted to doublecheck and see if I am doing the PDF correctly from InDesign. I do the File -- Export -- then when I get into the Export Adobe PDF I mark the Adobe PDF Preset as [High Quality Print]. There is also three that begin with [PDF/x ...]; [Press Quality], and [Smallest File Size]. Is High Quality Print the best one to check? Also [Optimize for Fast Web View]; [Create tagged PDF], and [View PDF after Exporting] were already checked so I just left them checked. Then in Export Layers it has a box with [Visible and Printable Layers], which I didn't disturb. Then over to the left it says [Save Preset], and to the right it says [Export]. So I clicked on Export, and then got my PDF, which looks really good. Did I do it right for the best quality PDF? I would really appreciate a quick answer. Thank you. Arlene

 

[apepp]

...for sending to an unknown print provider, your best to use PDF/X-1a:2001, in this form any RGB imported graphics are converted to the destination CMYK profile during export (the destination CMYK profile is either defined by your color settings or you pick one from the drop down menu), it also flattens any transparency used in the document as it uses Acrobat 4 (1.3) format...

...any version higher than Acrobat 4 (1.3) preserves transparency in the PDF, with these types of PDF files the print provider will need a RIP that can handle transparent PDF files or they may have to flatten it themselves before RIP stage...

...depending on how complex the artwork is, flattening later in the workflow can raise issues, particularly if spot colors interact with transparency and need to be converted to CMYK, and also if vector elements sit below transparent areas that would otherwise be better off on a layer above or in front...

...the other area to watch for is the marks and bleed options, typically you will need to turn on crop marks and page information then change the bleed values to 3mm. If you however don't have graphics extending the page trim size then you will need to allow for this on the artwork...

Andrew

 

[eugenetyson]

If I remember correctly this is all black and white right?

Use

Press Quality

PDF x1a 2003

On Output
No Colour Conversion
Destination (should be grayed out)

On marks and bleed

Choose Crop Marks and Page Information

Bleed

3mm for each box.

http://www.doozler.blogspot.com/

 

[apepp]

...one area to be careful of is when compressing greyscale graphics to 300dpi, this can be a problem if an artworker places a very high resolution greyscale file intending it to print to a bitmap resolution of 1200dpi or higher...

...this often occurs with logos positioned in greyscale and then compressed on PDF output to 300dpi, the image doesn't print as sharp as it would have done in it's native resolution...

...so i typically turn greyscale compression off, and also bitmap resolution too, compressing only the color images...

...another area to watch for is spot colors that interact with transparency in PDF 1.3 which ultimately end up converted to CMYK, in certain situations the spot color ends up white and doesn't print...

Andrew

 

[eugenetyson]

Andrew, I believe it's a black and white job.

So that's why I gave those instructions.

True about the grayscale too, but it really only applies to line art, where these are all scanned photographs.

So I imagine all the photographs were scanned to 300 dpi anyway. And it will be printed at 150 lpi so a res of 225dpi is only really necessary.

You won't see a big difference with 1200 dpi b/w photos than on 300 dpi, and you could go as low as 225 without seeing much difference.

Even if the lpi is 175 for the printers then a res of 266 dpi would suffice.

http://www.doozler.blogspot.com/

 

[Hopefulwriter]

Eugene,
Yes, the book interior is black and white. I changed the ADOBE PDF PRESET from High Quality Print to Press Quality. Then it changes the Press Quality to [Press Quality] (modified). I added to the STANDARD: PDF/X-1a:2003, as you said. But when I change to No Color Conversion, the STANDARD under ADOBE PDF PRESET changes from PDF/X-1a:2003 to None. Then I looked at COMPRESSION in the next screen and it says Automatic (Jpeg). My photos are Tiff. In MARKS & BLEED I did as you said and chose - Crop Marks and Page Information – when I looked at completed PDF it had the file name, time I did it, etc. showing on each page, which I definitely don’t want in the book, so should I just leave the marks blank? And the BLEED: you said to make it 3 mm for each box. It is in inches and I don’t know how to change it to mm. Even so, I don’t need a bleed on the inside pages, so why do I need to mark it? On the ADVANCED screen I see the Transparency Flattener says Medium Resolution. As far as I know, I don’t need a Transparency Flattener, but if High Resolution would be helpful, I would want everything the highest, I suppose. How do I save these changes so they don’t revert back? Do I ever need to click on [SAVE PRESET] at the bottom left of the screens. If so, it then says ADOBE PDF PRESET 1 or 2. I just canceled out of that. So I need direction as to what to do. I assume when I get finished with all the changes I go on with EXPORT to finish up my PDF, which I did do. But since some of my changes have reverted back I’m not sure what to do. I just want the best quality book. So thanks for any additional advice. And thanks to the others that answered. Arlene

 

[apepp]

...the standard will change back to none because "no color conversion" is not part of PDF/X-1a:2003 format as PDF/X formats require an output intent profile described in the resulting PDF...

...this is for color managed workflows within a controlled printing environment (or loop) who print to a 'standard' or a calibrated workflow in CMYK color space...

...in europe this is known as an ISO printing standard based on FOGRA data tests on varying paper types (uncoated or coated papers). In theory if you used two different print providers who printed to the same standard targets, your prints would be pretty close, in the real world this is rarely the case, if ever...

...the PDF/X format would only apply if your print provider insists on such a format, so to save more confusion I wouldn't concern yourself with that at all, it is really only relevant in CMYK color printing, or when converting imported RGB images or native RGB colors during PDF creation to a destination CMYK profile...

...your project uses greyscale images (black ink) so color conversion is not relevant...

...during the conversion to PDF your images are converted to jpeg, which is fine so long as you don't compress the resolution too low, so leave at 300dpi...

...the crop marks and page info are useful to the print provider you send it to, so as long as you specify to them the correct page dimensions they won't print...

...you can change inches to mm in the preferences dialog of indesign, or just type in "3mm" in the fields and it will convert it for you to inches automatically...

...it is good practice to include bleeds even if the artwork doesn't have elements extending beyond the page trim size, this is so you don't have to remember to turn it on for one job and not another...

...always keep the transparency flattener set to HIGH...

...to save your changes to pdf settings you choose 'save preset' button and give a name, this then appears in the "File > Adobe PDF Presets" list...

...to delete a PDF preset you need to go to "File > Adobe PDF Presets > Define..."

Andrew