General Info on Paradox 2

[stinger1]

I have some experience with SQL Server, but need as much info as possible on Paradox.

My company hired a guy to create a database and he did it in paradox. They may want to post some of this stuff online in the next 12 months or so.

How difficult is Paradox to learn? Where can I get training - adequate training? Is online training sufficient?

I need as much info as possible so that I can make some informed decisions about utilizing this program.

Thanks in advance

 

[harrymossman]

>>How difficult is Paradox to learn?
I found it very difficult. Now that I have learned it (sort of), I realize what a powerful program it is. But, in my humble opinion, not at all user-friendly. After I started trying to learn it, I taught myself Access, Approach and FileMaker easily before becoming at all comfortably with Paradox.

>>Where can I get training - adequate training?
See replies to the current "Looking for a Resource" post.


>>Is online training sufficient?
Not many "offline" options unless there will be enough of you taking the training to justify brining someone in.

This forum is your best resource!
Harry

 

[chris1]

Hi,

I have been programming with Paradox for a very long time. The best resource that I know is a seris of book by Mike Prestwood. He has written books called "What every Paradox programmer should Know" He also has a web site called Prestwood.com that is very helpful.

 

[stinger1]

Thanks Chris,

I have finished 2 online courses. Basic and Advanced. Using it is the best way to learn. I have a long way to go. It seems somewhat user friendly, although very different than Access.

I've never heard of combining two columns to create a Key field before. Anyway....

 

[footpad]

Stinger1,

You mentioned two online courses. Care to post the URL's for those? (I try to keep an eye on these sorts of things for my website,

http://techtricks.com/paradox/).

Also, there's a great deal of information available

http://thedbcommunity.com

and

http://rdaworldwide.com/

Hope this helps...

-- Lance

 

[stinger1]

Here is the link to the online courses. It took me a total of about 10 hours to complete both courses.

The good think about their program of online course is for $225.00 you have access to all online courses for a year. I can revieve any part of any course at any time. It's a good start anyhow.

http://www.newhorizons.com/retail/English/courseCatalog/catalogsearch.asp?siteid=0&keyword=paradox

 

[stinger1]

Next time I'll preview my posts. Sorry for the poor English.

 

[sonso]

I think Access is a total dog in comparison to Paradox. There are so few things that are easy in Access (one could argue about some interface stuff). Paradox code is much easier to read, navigating objects is much easier, queries are more clearly coded (and can be edited in line), etc. I wish Access didn't exist.

 

[harrymossman]

Comparing Paradox with Access is like comparing apples with oranges. Yes, Paradox is a great programming application. But it is totally unsatisfactory for the average user. I have spent the last 8 years dealing with intelligent people who have trouble doing anything in Paradox despite having, in many cases, used Access successfully.

An example would be the Project Viewer, which should make life easier, and does once you understand it. The fact that the drop-down box changes to :work: is non-intuitive. Don't tell me that it is perfectly logical and people would understand it if they read the *&#@ manual. If it isn't intuitive, people who don't have time for a steep learning curve are going to freak out.

Yes, it would be possible to control the whole interface. That's fine if you have - or can hire - a programmer to do it. But don't recommend Paradox as a desktop database program for a small organization or for an individual who wants to keep track of his/her CD collection.

 

[sonso]

The strange thing is that the more you know about relational databases, the more you like Paradox, whereas the simpler your need the more you like Access. How about the fact that Access is always "live" for editing?

 

[stinger1]

sonso,

Is that a good thing in your opinion or a bad thing that Access is always "live for editing?

 

[footpad]

Stinger,

PMFJI, but I think it depends on the situation. You certainly wouldn't want help-desk people deleting records detailing earlier conversations with a client regarding a continuing problem; however, you would certainly want telephone sales people to be able to add items to an order.

It all depends on the need. While Paradox can be a bit more finicky than other packages (and, yes, a little harder to learn to use well), I certainly appreciate being able to make an informed decision over my application's editing capabilities.

I'll freely admit that I'm biased (having spent more than 10 years working with Paradox) and I'm certain there's a away to provide read-only access to datasets in Access (and I suspect if I'd had 10 years of experience with that package, I'd be able to tell you how to do it. *grin*).

In the end, the question really revolves around finding the package that best fits your needs. I believe both server their respective niches well and that many organizations tend to limit their choices by choosing one over the other. Perhaps there's room for both.

My two cents worth...

-- Lance

 

[stinger1]

Yes, the last company I worked for used Access extensively. It was a major problem when people edited important fields without having to hit a "update record" button.

They finally fixed the problem and the garbage being entered was minimized. Now I am in the position to make such changes. I'm surprised there isn't a default. There might be, I'm still learning.

 

[stinger1]

Access is only live for editing by default. You can easily change it with a couple clicks of a button.

My company hired a Paradox Programmer to create a database that would definitely be on the web within a year. They initially asked him to create it in Access because the people utilizing the database new access. He convinced the department manager that Paradox was best and wasted $14,000 in donated funds because now it is so counter-intuitive, noone uses it.

They have recently called me in to consult on the project - We're going with a SQL database and programming it in Coldfusion. A very simple solution to a simple problem. Unfortunately the previously wasted money can not be retrieved. This time, however, it will be well-spent.

At some point Corel should stop bothering with such a waste of a product or offer extensive training so that database programmers can have some way to learn it besides from a book and from trial and error.

I do not recommend Paradox unless you're trying to sabatoge someone.

 

[Kliot]

Stinger1,

So let me get this straight, it's Corel's fault that there are crappy programmers out there.... Do you also blame Ford for the fact that there are crappy drivers out there?


Perrin

 

[footpad]

Stinger1,

I tend to agree with Kliot. I admit that Paradox has it's quirks and that there's a learning curve to learning to use it well, but I've seen bad code written in many languages, including Access/VB and server-side CGI/ColdFusion scripts.

There are bad programmers out there and therey by no means limited to Paradox. Indeed, I seem to recall that MS has shipped their fair share of stinker ideas. (Anyone else remember Bob?)

I do agree that people should use the tools they're most familiar with. It sounds like your company's consultant felt most comfortable with Paradox, but really wasn't ready to provide professional services to others. It's unfortunate that these things still happen, even with decades of research regarding effective software development practices.

Yes, it's possible to code badly in just about anything. However, it's also possible to code well. After all, there are a lot of Paradox fans out there who've stuck with the product in spit of it's quirks and market mishaps. That either suggests they're all idiots (which I know they're not; I've met many of them) or that there's something they see once they get the hang of things.

Heck,

http://thedbcommunity.com

is implemented using Paradox. Now you might be tempted to argue the merits of the implementation, but the point is there are people using the product to effectively solve real-world problems every day.

Food for thought...
-- Lance

 

[cobweb]

Hi :

Can I add my 10 pence worth?
I have real problems with :

versions of Access. Write something in Access 2000 and the whole damn organisation has to upgrade. Paradox? I have version 7, 8, 9 and 10 all reading each others data quite happily.

Reading Oracle. I have a real problem with Access reading external tables. Write the thing on my PC, and nobody else can read the tables, unless they reset the ODBC drivers to suit their PC. My IT guru says it is because ODBC drivers are machine specific. Paradox? DBE engine causes no problems.

Paradox is a pig; but that is because it is so rigorous. You are simply not allowed to deviate from the rigorous database rules it applies. They are there for your protection!

Reporting. Many reporting tools read Paradox(or DBase) as standard. Access format is less well supported and needs a bit of fiddling. To be fair, this is changing, but is a factor.

I personally use Approach for friendly, cheerful small databases like planners. Access for medium dificulty stuff like fixed assets databases, and Paradox if I am serious. My company gives me grief for being alone in using it - nobody else can support it, but whenever Access gives up on a task, paradox comes up with the answer. I am not a programmer, I am an accountant, and I much prefer Paradox!

 

[stinger1]

You can judge a software program by the amount of purchases and users it has. Capitalism, my friends.

Corel doesn't even have a training progam for its product. I know because i looked and looked. The old timers seem to be the only apologists for the product. A newby to that software can't get trained.

I don't blame Corel for bad programmers, I blame them for a bad program and a lack of training opportunity. I took both the basic and advanced online courses for Paradox (there weren't any live ones in Chicago, Indianapolis, St. Louis, or Cincinnati. Only New York and New Orleans)

Also, most people have never heard of Corel. Bad marketing, bad sales, no training = bad product.

You guys may be right about it being thorough and all that but you've been programming it in for years. Ask a newbie to do even basic things in it and its incredibly difficult to even find out how, let alone actually doing it.

I say this with experience in HTML, Coldfusion, Access, and SQL Server.

 

[Kliot]

Stinger1,

I can't argue with your last post. Corel bought Paradox to add to it's failed office suite that nobody uses. Since then they have done nothing to promote it and now they don't even offer it as a standalone application. You now have to buy the whole suite to get Paradox or to even upgrade it. Fortunately you can find it on ebay for under $20.00. With the uncertain future of Paradox and Corel I would be reluctant in recommending Paradox to a newby unless they really needed all it had to offer. When Paradox was owned by Borland they offered extensive training in form of the "Paradox Developers Parteners Program" unfortunately those days are gone.

Perrin

 

[stinger1]

Yes, I did notice that Paradox had to be purchased along with the entire office suite. Our Network guy did indeed buy it on ebay for about that same price.