gateway CDROM misery - won't work !

[welderjeffo]

It's an older gateway (P5-200) windows 95 machine.
hard drive went bad, fixed that and tried to install windows from CD, but it wouldn't work, even with the cdrom being the first boot device in the bios. So I installed w95 from backup floppies.
The CDROM is actually a Mitsumi FX120T plugged into the secondary on the MB, same as it was from gateway, when it was new.
I downloaded and installed drivers-I tried the drivers from gateway, and from somewhere else for the mitsumi. I found no difference.(system.ini, config.sys, autoexec.bat, all edited)
During normal boot, the cdrom is not detected, so the drivers don't load, and the secondary IDE controller doesn't show up in the device manager.
Now when I plug it into the same ribbon with the HD, and change jumpers, it's detected and the secondary IDE controller shows in the device manager, but if I try to use it, I get an error "code 4"...I can't find anymore info about "code 4".
I've tried different ribbon cables, checked all the connectors pins, and tried all jumper settings, and even tried another power plug. Nothing seems to work.
The drive itself I think is OK....the drawer opens and closes alright, and the light flashes.
I also tried a W98 boot floppy and choose cd support, the drive spins up and tried to read the cd, but I get the "code 4".-note; this is only when the cdrom is on the same ribbon with the hd. When the cdrom is on it's own ribbon and plugged into the secondary on the MB, I get nothing....it doesn't work in dos or windows.
I also noticed that when the cdrom is on the hd ribbon, the secondary controller is enabled in the bios, and I can select it, but when it's on it's own ribbon, the secondary controller is disabled, and I can't select or change it. I've tried everything I can think of....2-3-4 times ! What am I missing?
Help?

 

[micker377]

If you use a Win98 boot disk, (choice 1 - boot with CD) does it find the CD? If not, the CD may be dead. Try another CD drive and the boot disk again. The boot disk has "universal" CD rom drivers, they work on just about anything.

 

[welderjeffo]

w98 boot disk and w/cd support option finds the drive and it tries to work but i get the code 4 message.
i'm thinking there's a prob in the registry.
i thought i had it straightened out this evening, and i had the drive reading a cd from windows explorer, but it wouldn't show up in the device manager. so i rebooted and the drive disappeared from windows explorer.
i let windows search for new hw and it installs a ide/esdi controller which causes a conflict with the dual ide controller.
any ideas?
thanks.

 

[micker377]

Sounds like an old fashioned drive, Again - try a new style drive.

 

[garebo]

Maybe a combo of an old fashioned drive and a drive that is getting old and intermittent problems as well. Best to replace it, you can get a decent used one for $10 or less.
You can get a new one for $20 shipping included. I saw one the net the other day for $9, i think it was new as well.
Try pricewatch.com.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[welderjeffo]

OK here's the deal.......I don't believe there's anything physically wrong with the drive....it works fine in another machine, and a different drive won't work in the gateway.
After plugging/unplugging the cdrom and changing things in the bios and device manager, this is what I've got: with the cdrom plugged in and in safe mode, cdrom is listed in device manager, but no details are available and the cdrom is not listed in windows explorer. Also, listed in the device manager, I have a standard dual PCI IDE controller, as parent device to pri. and sec. IDE controllers, but no details. I can't remove the secondary controller.
After normal boot, the cdrom does not show any where and the secondary controller is also missing.
Back to safe mode, I remove the cdrom and shut down, unplug the cdrom and reboot, then shut down and reconnect the cdrom. Then on normal boot, windows detects the cdrom, and it shows up in explorer and in device manager, and is using the proper I/O and IRQ settings. I put a cd in the tray and can read it....the cdrom works fine now.
Everything looks good right?....NOPE....don't count yer chickens just yet !
Shut down and reboot and guess what, windows again detects the cdrom, it shows up in explorer, but doesn't work and the device manager doesn't list it anymore. So I go to let windows find new hardware and it finds a standard IDE/ESDI hard disk controller. If I let windows install it and reboot, then the cdrom is not detected and doesn't show up anywhere, but that controller is using the I/O and IRQ settings that are supposed to be for the cdrom.
If I don't install it, windows detects the cdrom on every boot and it shows up in explorer, but it doesn't work and it's not listed in the device manager.
Is it possible that the standard dual PCI IDE controller is causing this problem? If so, what will happen if I remove it? ie:the hard drive not be detected?
What if I use the current settings associated with the HD to set the IDE/ESDI controller, and then install another instance of this IDE/ESDI with the settings for the cdrom? or maybe use some other controller for the HD?
Or maybe just clear the cmos and restart the system with everything attached?
What's the most logical thing to do here...what's most likely to work with the least amount of manual reconfigurationating?<-(my new word..hehe)
Thanks again for any ideas.

 

[garebo]

Clear the cmos is easy to do and maybe a good start.
And if that fails, perhaps you might want to go to the mobo mfgrs website and re-load any drivers they have there for this mobo.
I remember repairing a similar setup for a friend and i had to do just that, some driver was missing, but i cant remember the details except that they had no secondary ide channel at all. Got it fixed that way.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[welderjeffo]

UPDATE: I'm very close to getting the cdrom working!
I found the following at Intel:
Description
Some versions of Windows 95 may not recognize the IDE controller on Intel motherboards using the 82371SB PIIX3 or 82371AB PIIX4 component. This can cause the BIOS to disable the secondary IDE channel, resulting in IDE devices (such as CD-ROM drives) not being detected or disappearing after the system is rebooted.

Root Cause
The PIIX3 and PIIX4 components are not included in the list of IDE controllers in the MSHDC.INF file shipped with some versions of Windows 95. During installation, these versions of Windows 95 see the IDE functionality but can't identify the exact controller type. Windows 95 enables the primary IDE channel of the 82371SB or 82371AB, but assumes that the secondary IDE channel belongs to a non-plug and play ISA IDE controller. Windows 95 then adds this information to the plug and play configuration area. When the system is rebooted, the motherboard BIOS interprets this information as indicating an ISA IDE expansion card has been installed, and disables the onboard secondary IDE channel -- rendering any devices on this channel inaccessible. The most common symptom is that the CD-ROM drive will not be recognized by Windows 95 after rebooting the system.

Affected Products
This issue affects all Intel motherboard products with the 82371SB PIIX3 or 82371AB PIIX4 component.

Workaround / Action
To determine how the system has been configured, look in the Windows 95 Device Manager:

Click
1. Start
2. Settings
3. Control Panel

# Double click on the System icon, then click on the Device Manager tab.
# Double click on Hard Disk Controllers.

If you see the following drivers listed, the system has NOT been configured correctly:
Hard Disk Controllers
* Primary IDE Controller (single FIFO)
* Standard Dual PCI IDE Controller
* Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller

An Install Wizard has been developed that adds an entry for the PIIX3 or PIIX4 IDE controller (as appropriate for your motherboard) into the MSHDC.INF file.

So I have that much straightened out, but now I've got a problem with the PCI host bridge. Windows detects it on boot and installs a default driver for it and it doesn't work properly. Gimme another week or so and I'll have it fixed.
(I hope)
Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[edfair]

This was primarily a 98 and 98SE problem. You can find further discussion on the web with a google search for "disappearing CDROM drives".

Intel has the fix tool on their website.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[joykaym]

anyone know where I can find a "universal boot disk" that came with these Gateway PC's and have the CD drivers on, and which guides thru the install process....my only copy got damaged.

Thanks for any help

 

[garebo]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but you can get a used but newer cdrom for about $5 and a new one for under $10, wouldnt that be a better idea than messing around with drivers that can get corrupted or other probs, not to mention the fact the drive can give out any day, might even be half dead as we speak.
Just a thought.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[welderjeffo]

garebo,
I know cdrom are cheap these days, but unfortunately a new one won't solve the problem here. I experimented with 2 other newer drives and couldn't get either to work in the gateway. So $5 or $10 would've been spent for nothing.
I can get the cdrom to work under dos, but not windows.

The problem here seems to revolve around the motherboard and windows. Gateway used a variation of an intel MB with a chipset that microsoft did not include in the INF's.
Intels workaround was a modified mshdc.inf that let windows recognize the PIIX3/PIIX4. (in this case,PIIX3)
Gateways version of the MB apparently requires another modification to at least one INF, but since gateway has discontinued support for this unit, I can't find anymore info, and the restore CD is useless.
Gateways restore CD works great until the harddrive is replaced....the cd only has a minimal set of system files and a program that restores the remaining software from a super hidden partition on the original HD.
Without the contents of that hidden partition, I will need to figure out what to modify, and how. After 2 weeks of experimenting, I've got a few minor problems fixed, and I have a few ideas for the cdrom, but first I need a solution for a problem with 'pci to cpu host bridge', which is gateway specific.....windows wants to install a standard, but that doesn't work properly. Intel *might* have been helpful, but they also discontinued support, and microsoft is no help atall.
I'm lost.

 

[welderjeffo]

joykaym,
you should be able to use any windows boot disk with generic cdrom drivers.
My gateway starts and runs using anything from W95 to W98, and my cdrom does work with generic drivers.....I made my own custom boot disk using the best features from all boot disks.
You can download from

http://www.bootdisk.com/.

 

[garebo]

Sorry about that, never really run into that kind of problem, but then again i build my own pc's.
I have heard of the horror stories with Dell for their proprietary mobo and power supply. I guess Gateway is another from what i am hearing.
If, in the end, you dont get any satisfaction, and if there are no other proprietary issue, you might want to consider getting another motherboard, a standard atx mobo that you can buy used on one of the many very good forums around that buy and sell, like anandtech, tech imo. And if you go there mention my name, nork, they all know me. But not by the name i use here, lol.
You can pick up a used board to suit your mobo for around $5.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[welderjeffo]

garebo,
no need to be sorry, at least you tried to offer some help.
dell, gateway, compaq......never again! I also build my own now. My good rig is EZ to fix when something gets messed up, I know exactly what to look for. This gateway is another story, it's just an old rig that I was trying to revive to say "I did it", but it's kickin my butt. It needs to go in the garbage.
I have an old compaq as well, and successfully revived that one. It had similar problems with the cdrom after a HD failure, but I was able to salvage about 90% of the HD with a file recovery program. It was important to salvage because it contained 1000's of old family photos...my kids back when they were little, etc. That experience taught me a hard lesson about having "back up data" and the gateway problem reinforced it.
Thanks for your suggestions, everything helps, one way or another.

 

[garebo]

no problem.
Im a relative newcomer to computers, so lots of people have helped me out a lot, only trying to pay it back.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[ANFPS26]

welderjeffo, just a shot in the dark here. I've had this problem a time or two. Make sure in your CONFIG.SYS file you have the line:

LASTDRIVE=Z

If it says LASTDRIVE=C, then it will never see your CD-ROM drive.

That may not be it, but it has been a problem for me in the past.

Jim

 

[garebo]

Theres one i forgot about!


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[welderjeffo]

ANFPS26,
Thanks, but I tried that, along with a slew of other lines that I thought might help, but then it doesn't boot properly.
Originally, there was nothing in config.sys...or autoexec.bat, and the system seems to work better like that now.....don't ask me why because I haven't got a clue.
I had almost the exact same problem with an old compaq of mine, but I got lucky on that one, it's fixed and still working fine.
Everything I tried on the compaq, I tried on the gateway, and then some.
Thanks again.

As of now, I have the cdrom detected right after the HD. Everything appears to be good. The cdrom is listed properly as "mitsumi cd-rom fx120t !B" in device manager with no conflicts. It is supposedly "working properly".
It is listed under the second ide controller, which is under the 82731SB bus master ide controller, as it should be.
It also shows as drive D in explorer.
Now with a cd in the tray, When I click D, it says "D:\ is not ready"....like there's nothing in the tray.
Just to check operation, pull it out, stick it in another computer and it works fine.
Then I stuck a working matsushita drive in the gateway, the gateway detects it as matshita cr581, as it should. It also shows up in device manager and explorer, and it does the same thing on click....."not ready"
Repeat test with another drive, "LG 8384b", same results.
The only thing I can think of is a problem between windows and the chipset....Intel 82731SB, PIIX3. Something is missing from an INF and therefore a pci host bridge is improperly detected at startup and windows wants to install a standard, which doesn't make any difference if I let windows install it or not.
Gateway and Intel have both discontinued support for this old clunker, but I did find some info for Intel PIIX4 that applies to the PIIX3 as well. The difference seems to be 1 extra line in an INF for the PIIX3 that isn't required for the PIIX4.....I just don't know what INF, or what line(s).
That's my best educated guess.
I wish a Gateway tech or someone with an old Gateway P5-200 would chime in here, I think that might be the only source of info for me, otherwise, I'm shooting in the dark. Maybe I'll get lucky and stumble onto the fix, but my chances look pretty grim at this point.
Any other ideas are worth trying (if I haven't already)
Keep em coming.....
Thanks