Four times more

[stackdump]

I've had a miscommunication with a vendor today that misinterpreted 'four times more'. What I wanted was five times last months quantity (which was 3), so I should end up with 15. Anyway, for whatever reason I asked for 'four times more' than last month, but ended up with 12 in the lobby with me scurrying around looking for the others.

To me, 'four times more' means I want the original amount plus an additional amount. The additional amount being equal to the original amount times four. So five times in total, right?

Was I right or wrong? If I had said 'four times as much', would that have meant four or five times? You can imagine how the conversation went on the phone later in the day. The missing three are now on the way, but having rattled the vendors brain, I'm now filled with doubt.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Correct, Grasshopper.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[RodKnowlton]

it's unclear whether it means multiplication or addition, because more says to add, but times says to multiply

Thank you for putting your finger on what was bothering me about that phrase.

- Rod

 

[ESquared]

Increased [green]by[/green] 300% [blue]of[/blue] Z = new value is 300/100 [blue]times[/blue] Z [green]plus[/green] Z = 400.
Increased [green]to[/green] 300% [blue]of[/blue] X = new value [green]is[/green] 300/100 [blue]times[/blue] X = 300.

 

[Skie]

it's unclear whether it means multiplication or addition, because more says to add, but times says to multiply

It's clear because you have to to both. It's four times the original amount in addition to the original amount. (4 * 3 + 3)

 

[ESquared]

Oh, it's clear to me. I meant it's unclear to or from "regular" people who don't obsess about language.

 

[stackdump]

Ah, so that's why I got 12 instead of 15, I'm irregular!

I doubted my correct use of language, but I actually had the correct expectation. The vendor is 'regular' but misunderstood the requirement and sent the wrong thing.

Irregulars unite!, you have nothing to lose but your inventory!

 

[Zathras]

So the problem is still the vendor?

Let's see. Either he asked you how many you wanted or you were placing an order.

But instead of giving him a quantity, you gave him a math problem? (And a word problem at that!)

The vendor made a huge mistake by not asking for clarification, but the primary culprit (if that's the right word) will be found by looking in a mirror.

 

[stackdump]

Nice try...

"I require more this month than last month"
"How many more do you need?"
"12"
"So four times more right?"
"Yes, four times more"

I don't think the big pointy finger is pointing at 'stack the irregular'.

 

[Zathras]

Ok, I don't really want to argue the point, but you did say "I asked for 'four times more' than last month" in your original post. (Emphasis added)

Even so, given now that it was the vendor that posed the math problem to you instead of naming a number (and not the other way around), what reason did you have to assume that he knew the correct answer to his own problem?

Unless there is a history of him giving you math problems and producing evidence that he always had the right answer, I think you now have two charges against you: The only actual number that you cited (12) was not the number you really wanted, and you assumed he had more math skill than what was required in the situation.

I would suggest that in this instance, blame should be allocated in the ratio of the IQ's of the individuals involved.

 

[stackdump]

That doesn't hold water.

The vendor asked "how many more?" (so he is aware that I want an additional quantity), I said 12 (which was the
correct answer to the question and I qualified the number), he says "so four times more" (this is a correct calculation) and I confirm it (which was the correct response).

My original concern was whether I was correct in confirming his calculation and it appears that I was.

If the vendors first question had of been "how many?" with "more" omitted) then I would have been wrong to say 12. So in this case the addition of the word "more" resulted in "less".

 

[kjv1611]

Given the way people typically communicate verbally, I would suppose 12 to have been correct (had I been the vendor).

stackdump, Here is what you said the whole conversastion was:

You: "I require more this month than last month"
Vendor: "How many more do you need?"
You: "12"
Vendor: "So four times more right?"
You: "Yes, four times more"

If I were the vendor, I would think the "more" is the same as "in addition to" - but to what, I would want to inquire further. If I had to go based off of the communicated amounts, I would more than likely assume "in addition to what has already been sent."

I believe in dealing with such transactions, the whole conversation seems a little ambiguous. It leaves too much to opinions rather than fact.

If you answered back:
"Yes, I would like to order 15 units."
Instead of just repeating "Four times more", then there would have been no ambiguity - just as if the vendor has asked, "So that will be 15 units on this order, correct?", that would have been acceptable.

Either way, I agree with earlier posters in that I would just take it as a lesson learned on ambiguities.

I believe this thought has already been posted, at least in part, but hopefully at the least this gives yet another perspective.

I've learned many times that what I think may not be ambiguous may indeed be so to someone else. Of course, I learn a new example of that every time I am ambiguous.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[KenCunningham]

Ambiguity ahoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz2-ukrd2VQ

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[Lunatic]

Ah, so that's why I got 12 instead of 15, I'm irregular!

I'm confused...

How do your backed up fecal probems cause you to recieve fewer items than you requested?

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[stackdump]

As Esquared said;

Oh, it's clear to me. I meant it's unclear to or from "regular" people who don't obsess about language.

All obessors are irregular! Perhaps it's Linguistic Fecal Disorder.

 

[SantaMufasa]

If this thread has generated four times more replies than I could have ever dreamt it would, what is the maximum number of replies that I would have anticipated? <grin>

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[Skie]

You anticipated 6.8 replies when you last replied. If you include my reply, then you anticipated seven replies. But, so long as the thread continues to generate replies, your anticipated number of replies is:
(number of replies) / 5